Author Topic: Parallel flow condenser  (Read 22209 times)

1980sdga

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Parallel flow condenser
« on: 29 June 2011, 05:50 PM »
I'm in the process of fitting a parallel flow condenser (16" X 20") and a Sanden 709 compressor.  Anyone done anything similar?

This is turning into a Can-O-Worms  ;D
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's

jbrasile

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #1 on: 29 June 2011, 06:58 PM »
Jon, you are on the right track. You may run into a little bit of trouble getting a bracket that would work with the Sanden but I am sure one can be fabricated.

Let us know how it goes, this mod could benefit a lot of us wanting to improve the efficiency of our a/c system.

Tks,

Joe

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #2 on: 29 June 2011, 07:12 PM »
I actually ordered a York to Sanden bracket to use as a starting point for building a bracket.  I can't tell exactly what I'm going to do until the compressor gets here tomorrow.

I've seen OM617 brackets for Sanden compressors so I know it will fit in the space. The oil cooler lines may get in the way though...
Jon


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WGB

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #3 on: 29 June 2011, 07:19 PM »
This is probably a necessary mod for the 280/300 guys so will be interested in how it goes.

Please post pictures.

Bill

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #4 on: 29 June 2011, 08:12 PM »
The only thing that bugs me is that it'll be smaller by 40 square inches and I don't know what the volume differences are.

Cool picture:



The first two are tube/fin like We have, the third is a "serpentine" and the far right is a parallel flow.  I've never held either but I think a parallel flow has header tanks on either side, whereas the serpentine is like the tube/fin with different shaped tubing.

It would be interesting to know the volume differences.  Since my compressor has the same displacement per revolution as the old R4 this would be the only big change in the system volume-wise.

Interesting that with an R4 it seems to be recommended that oil be dispersed throughout the system when it's assembled but the Sanden just requires the compressor to be filled. It still recirculates  but the Sanden must not be as sensitive to oil volume as the R4.

I will say that removing the old condenser was more work than I anticipated  :o
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #5 on: 30 June 2011, 03:04 PM »
Just some pictures of my compressor mock-up.

This is pretty close to where it will end up:



I believe I can weld onto the bracket and use the lug that runs parallel to the crankshaft for one mounting point. And use the lug beneath it (with the bore parallel to the cylinder bores) for another.

Top view:



Thankfully it doesn't look like it will interfere with the cooler lines  :D  I am going to have to pull them all the way out though  :P  There just isn't enough room to work in there with them in the way...

So far I haven't ran into any big obstacles.

Where I am now:

  weld



The yellow shows where the parts will need to be welded.  Gotta scrub the engine some more...
« Last Edit: 30 June 2011, 06:58 PM by 1980sdga »
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's

WGB

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #6 on: 01 July 2011, 12:48 AM »
Looking Good.

Bill

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #7 on: 01 July 2011, 06:47 PM »
So far it's looking like it'll be relatively easy to pull off  :)
Jon


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KenM

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #8 on: 02 July 2011, 03:17 AM »
Interesting Jon, what made you abandon the R4 replacement, did I miss something in your other post? No need to bother with putting oil in any other part of the system with any compressor, the oil will circulate around the

system and come back to the comp in good time. The new condensors are much more efficient space wise and it should be a nice modification, the only drawback with the aluminium is that it's so easily holed, make sure it's nice

and secure so no rubbing occurs.

Look forward to more progress reports. Cheers,
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3 amigos

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #9 on: 02 July 2011, 07:41 PM »
Some pics. of mocking it up after getting the compressor mounted in the bracket. More on the bracket later







I clamped those steel bars to the crank pulley to line everything up. I had the wood clamp on the compressor/bracket assembly to use as a "handle" to position it. It was resting on the floor jack so I just raised/lowered it and kept shimming the "handle" with wood until it was in position.  It was like playing Jenga a couple of times  ;D

With jigs removed:







In the last pic you can see how I had to use 2 bolts on the tensioning slot. The pivot point is a through bolt on the bottom. I had the slider part made up with a through bolt and a spacer between the "ears" but the compressor didn't want to slide for adjustment. Plus it would have to squeeze the compressor ears to tighten it down.

The bracket I used is supposed to be a York to Sanden adapter but it's really more of a kit because it needed quite a bit of work to get the adjustment slot working using a single long bolt for the pivot.

The compressor is a mid 80's 709 from a Hyundai Elantra  :o  It's a Four Seasons reman.

I gave up on the R4 because they seem to have a poor reputation for durability. It may just be that folks damage them during charging and start a snowball with failed compressors from previous crud in the system.  Anyway, the stories have me spooked, plus my old R4 was cooling fine but it was noisy. I also just do stupid stuff sometimes  :D

I'll be sure to make sure I don't have any rubbing going on when I get around to the condenser.

I sure hope this works...

Here's the bracket I started with:



The instructions had it using 4 separate nuts and bolts on 4 of the compressor ears.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2011, 07:45 PM by 1980sdga »
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #10 on: 02 July 2011, 10:30 PM »
Some pics. of mocking it up after getting the compressor mounted in the bracket. More on the bracket later







I clamped those steel bars to the crank pulley to line everything up. I had the wood clamp on the compressor/bracket assembly to use as a "handle" to position it. It was resting on the floor jack so I just raised/lowered it and kept shimming the "handle" with wood until it was in position.  It was like playing Jenga a couple of times  ;D

With jigs removed:







In the last pic you can see how I had to use 2 bolts on the tensioning slot. The pivot point is a through bolt on the bottom. I had the slider part made up with a through bolt and a spacer between the "ears" but the compressor didn't want to slide for adjustment. Plus it would have to squeeze the compressor ears to tighten it down.

The bracket I used is supposed to be a York to Sanden adapter but it's really more of a kit because it needed quite a bit of work to get the adjustment slot working using a single long bolt for the pivot.

The compressor is a mid 80's 709 from a Hyundai Elantra  :o  It's a Four Seasons reman.

I gave up on the R4 because they seem to have a poor reputation for durability. It may just be that folks damage them during charging and start a snowball with failed compressors from previous crud in the system.  Anyway, the stories have me spooked, plus my old R4 was cooling fine but it was noisy. I also just do stupid stuff sometimes  :D

I'll be sure to make sure I don't have any rubbing going on when I get around to the condenser.

I sure hope this works...

Here's the bracket I started with:



The instructions had it using 4 separate nuts and bolts on 4 of the compressor ears.

Ken, my compressor says it has "100 VIS PAG" in it and it says compatible with both R12 and 134a.  I'll actually have both type of valves on the system when I get it together  :o  so I guess I can go with either?
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's

Squiggle Dog

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #11 on: 03 July 2011, 12:10 AM »
This is great! I will for sure need working (and efficient) air conditioning the next time I drive down south or move somewhere warmer. I'm also going to be doing the manual heat conversion fairly soon, so I should work on the air conditioning at the same time.

It's always nice when someone goes ahead and experiments with things first. This way I can learn from your mistakes instead of my own!

It's looking good, though. I also have to add that I much prefer the location of the compressor on the W116 300SDs versus the W110 200Ds with the compressor and bracket getting in the way of almost everything in front of the engine, making even adjusting the alternator belt difficult!
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1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #12 on: 03 July 2011, 11:08 AM »
Check this out Squig:

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/heater-cores/50-1555/heater-valve-p-3667.html

May give you some heater ideas. 

If this compressor project works out then it could be duplicated with a welder and some basic steel stock.
Jon


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Squiggle Dog

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #13 on: 03 July 2011, 04:34 PM »
I got a manual heater valve from Mercedes-Benz that is a direct replacement for the ones with manual heat, and it was only $20 and came with the vacuum pod for opening and closing.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

1980sdga

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Re: Parallel flow condenser
« Reply #14 on: 03 July 2011, 06:12 PM »
I got a manual heater valve from Mercedes-Benz that is a direct replacement for the ones with manual heat, and it was only $20 and came with the vacuum pod for opening and closing.

Cool. Don't you have ACC?
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's