Author Topic: Oil pressure after storage?  (Read 266 times)

raueda1

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Oil pressure after storage?
« on: 27 February 2019, 08:10 AM »
My car is garaged during the winter on a trickle charger.  During this time it's rarely driven, maybe just monthly or every 6 weeks as weather allows.  I've noticed that after these long periods it takes oil pressure longer to rise than when it's driven regularly.  Don't ask me exactly how much slower, it's a subjective thing.  Seems like there's a small lag of a second or so for pressure to come up after the engine fires.  It starts virtually instantaneously, no cranking before firing upb, so no chance to move any oil before it starts.  When driven regularly the pressure seems to rise faster than that, almost immediately.  So, the questions:

> How long should it take for pressure to come up after a long downtime?

> In this scenario does it make sense to crank the engine before starting to refill the galleries before starting? 

Oil pressure is otherwise OK and not a concern.  Thanks for any insights.

 
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

daantjie

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #1 on: 27 February 2019, 09:18 AM »
Dave what is the temp like in the garage? Is it heated?  Of course thinner oil will flow better, but I am sure you know this ;)
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

raueda1

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #2 on: 27 February 2019, 10:32 AM »
Dave what is the temp like in the garage? Is it heated?  Of course thinner oil will flow better, but I am sure you know this ;)
Garage is unheated though slightly warmer than outdoors because of sun.  This time of year I'd be driving about 40-50F.  It's got 20W50.  As I ponder, it makes sense that it would take fractionally longer for pressure to build when it's cold than in summer.
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

ptashek

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #3 on: 27 February 2019, 01:24 PM »
IMO, 20W50 grade oil is by far the worst you can put into these cars unless you're somewhere like Arizona, Nevada or Western Sahara ;)
I've had tried once, and it was the only time when my engine burnt oil. Went back to 10W-40, not a drop burned since. From factory the universal, all climate, oil grade was either 10W-40 or 15W-40. I've used both grades, but prefer the 10 in the mild Irish climate.

Either way, after long breaks it does indeed take a second or two for oil pressure to build up. On the 6.9 it's not a big deal as they have a ratcheting chain tensioner. On the other V8s the tensioner leaks down and the chain, and if old, can skip and wreak havoc. I'm not sure if this applies to the I6 motors too.

I've followed advice given by s-class on the forum in the past, i.e. pulling the fuel pump relay, then cranking the engine until oil pressure builds up, and then starting as normal. Works without fail. Working oil pressure is near instant.

EDIT: I've just noticed you're in Utah... I guess 20W50 might be OK.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

Diesel 617

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #4 on: 28 February 2019, 10:16 AM »
IMO, 20W50 grade oil is by far the worst you can put into these cars unless you're somewhere like Arizona, Nevada or Western Sahara ;)
I've had tried once, and it was the only time when my engine burnt oil. Went back to 10W-40, not a drop burned since. From factory the universal, all climate, oil grade was either 10W-40 or 15W-40. I've used both grades, but prefer the 10 in the mild Irish climate.

Either way, after long breaks it does indeed take a second or two for oil pressure to build up. On the 6.9 it's not a big deal as they have a ratcheting chain tensioner. On the other V8s the tensioner leaks down and the chain, and if old, can skip and wreak havoc. I'm not sure if this applies to the I6 motors too.

I've followed advice given by s-class on the forum in the past, i.e. pulling the fuel pump relay, then cranking the engine until oil pressure builds up, and then starting as normal. Works without fail. Working oil pressure is near instant.

EDIT: I've just noticed you're in Utah... I guess 20W50 might be OK.

Does this apply to all w116 gassers? or just 6.9

I would imagine 20w 50 would be fine for summer driving in the midwest we regularly see 90 (32c+) degree days once may hits until then its 40-60f (4-15c)
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ptashek

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #5 on: 28 February 2019, 11:42 AM »
This is from my 450SE 1979 user's manual:

1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

daantjie

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #6 on: 28 February 2019, 11:49 AM »
Yup I've seen oil debates lead to fisticuffs on other forums but I think on the org we are way more chill than that ;D
Always good to match your oil to "average" ambient temps.  Multigrade oils cover a wide range of ambient for the most part.  My 2c is to stick to a reputable brand like Castrol, Chevron(Texaco), Mobil, Valvoline etc.  Having worked for both Chevron and Castrol lubes I can tell you that for the most part "oil is oil".  The big boys use better additive packs than the fly by night outfits, thus I always caution to rather focus on the brand than the grade for the most part.  Older engines need more zinc content, so look for an oil with high ZDDP levels.  Castrol GTX seems to fit my taste nicely, but I am sure many folks will disagree ::)
If you want some more oil shenanigans, go check out www.bobistheoilguy.com for a laugh 8)
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

rumb

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #7 on: 28 February 2019, 12:10 PM »
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/motor-oil-all-chapters-inclusive-copy-and-save-this.136052/

great read on oil.

all grades of oil go to 0W at operating temp, so you really need to focus on ability to lubricate when cold. As the W drops, flow increases which provides the needed cushion layer.

The higher the W the more damage you do to a cold engine, which is when most engine wear occurs. 

That's my .02
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

ptashek

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #8 on: 28 February 2019, 01:45 PM »
Quote
all grades of oil go to 0W at operating temp

It doesn't work like that.

XW-Y

The X number describes low temperature viscosity, the Y number describes operating temperature viscosity. It's basically a combination of single grade oil viscosities used to describe multi-grade oils.

10W-40 directly translates to like-SAE10 when cold, and like-SAE40 at operating temperature.

A 10W-30 will flow better at operating temperature than a 10W-40.

Best way to get exact figures is to look at data sheets, which most manufacturers publish these days.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

rumb

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #9 on: 28 February 2019, 03:26 PM »
did you read the article I posted? or the one daantje posted (actually a diff page on that site)
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Oil Type   Thickness at 75° F   Thickness at 212° F
10W-30   100                                   10
0W-30   40                                   10

thickness is not the same a W but from the chart you can clearly see that both weights go to to the same value when hot. In the example above 0W, 10W and 30W all went to the same value as 0W.

in my earlier post I should have said both go the same thickness (10) instead of using the W, but the results are the same either way.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

raueda1

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Re: Oil pressure after storage?
« Reply #10 on: 28 February 2019, 04:18 PM »
Yup I've seen oil debates lead to fisticuffs on other forums but I think on the org we are way more chill than that ;D
Always good to match your oil to "average" ambient temps.  Multigrade oils cover a wide range of ambient for the most part.  My 2c is to stick to a reputable brand like Castrol, Chevron(Texaco), Mobil, Valvoline etc.  Having worked for both Chevron and Castrol lubes I can tell you that for the most part "oil is oil".  The big boys use better additive packs than the fly by night outfits, thus I always caution to rather focus on the brand than the grade for the most part.  Older engines need more zinc content, so look for an oil with high ZDDP levels.  Castrol GTX seems to fit my taste nicely, but I am sure many folks will disagree ::)
If you want some more oil shenanigans, go check out www.bobistheoilguy.com for a laugh 8)
Actually I'm running GTX 20w-50 with added zinc additive (can't recall brand).  per the chart that should be fine.  Car never runs under about 45°F and it's unimaginably hot here in summer.  I second your remark on brand.  I spent many years in the antioxidant business.  The stabilizer package is a major contributor to both oil stability (Resistance to thermal breakdown, gum formation etc) as well as an expense.  Better stabilization = more expensive.
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0