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New wheels

Started by Mforcer, 01 June 2004, 11:25 PM

Mforcer

I am looking at getting new wheels for my 450SE that are 16x8 et11 for the front and 16x9 et13 for the rear.

My calculations suggest that either a 215/55 or 235/50 will be a close match to the original tyre size but don't know if these are right for the rim width or whether they will even fit my car without rubbing.

Also, would there be any issues having wider tyres at the rear comapred to the front?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

Mforcer

For the record, I have been informed that at those rim sizes it is best to use 225/55-16 front and 245/50-16 rear.

In keeping things simpler with a tyre size of similar diameter to the originals, 215/55-16 will indeed fit without problems or so I have been assured. I am not sure if the 235/50-16 could fit at all.

I have still to get my new rims and any suggestions are welcome. I'll also post pics when available.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

Mforcer

Have I found the holy grail?

The wheels I have located are AMG 16*7.5 et 17. Are these the perfect upsized wheel?

In all my research, I have noticed that for the 116 (like the 123, 107 and 126) when compared to stock sizes, AMG changed the offset of all their wheels so that they moved inwards by only 5mm while the outside movement varied with the wheel width.

This would suggest that AMG found the inner clearance could be safely reduced by 5mm. As others are aware from experience, keeping the offset stock works fine but then why did AMG change the offset?

The search may be finally over. I am excited! :D

Thanks,
Michael

edited with new details
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

Mforcer

Well, after quite some time I have finally had the AMG 16*7.5 et17 disc wheels mentioned in my previous post installed on my 450 SE. I could not be happier with the change. The wheels are late '80s designs and look great with their clean and simple design.

For tyres I went with 225/55-16 all round, sticking with Michelins. The original AMG suggested size of 225/50-16 and the same rolling diameter as original 215/55-16 didn't have load ratings high enough (1490 lbs or rating 95).

As for road handling and comfort, the new set-up is fantastic. Whereas the original tyres felt insecure around bends especially in the wet, the new set-up handles perfectly. I am not sure if it is just new vs. old tyres but I don't ever remember the old set-up working this well.

The additional 20mm tyre width seems to absorb the road imperfections and offset the reduction in sidewall height. The local tyre shop pumped the tyres to 38 psi which may be a little too hard but comfort is still there and only noticeable on absolutely terrible roads. I may reduce the pressure in future but as most of my driving will be highway I am still undecided.

I know I may have upset some of the purists out there but I still have the original steel wheels (interestingly with a 108 serial number) and painted hubcaps and will keep these for originality.

Thanks,
Michael
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

Mforcer

Finally, here is a photo of my car with the new wheels. What do you think?
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

Serpico

Nice but why did you not stick with the originals, I think they suit the car better.

My 79 450 with 50K miles on the clock. Click on picture to enlarge.

Mforcer

Quote from: "Serpico"Nice but why did you not stick with the originals, I think they suit the car better.
I looked for bigger rims so I could buy better tyres. The choice of tyres available allowed me to buy the best tyres available rather than limiting to just the worst. The handling improvement has certainly been worth it. I have kept my original steel wheels and hubcaps should I wish to go back.
I wasn't sure I had done the right thing for the looks of my car initially but now think the wheels look right for the car. The centre of the wheel should probably be painted the same colour as the car but I think the silver looks good too.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

Serpico

See your point on the issue of tyres. Michelins are impossible to get for the original factory alloys. Bet it steers well with those on.

I suffer from tyre road noise with the cheap after market tyres I have got on mine.

I would not change the colour, silver looks fine.

No headlight wash wipe on your's, what year is it?

Mforcer

Quote from: "Serpico"See your point on the issue of tyres. Michelins are impossible to get for the original factory alloys. Bet it steers well with those on.

I suffer from tyre road noise with the cheap after market tyres I have got on mine.
The tyres are great and they handle well.

When the cars were made the original tyres were big compared to other tyres available. Now, with better tyre technology, the original size is too small in my opinion.
There is also the issue of aqua planning which was a problem according to some of the original magazine reviews and remains an issue with the generally low performance tyres available in the original size. My new tyres should handle wet weather much better even considering the extra width.

Quote from: "Serpico"No headlight wash wipe on yours, what year is it?
The car is a 1977 Australian compliance collected direct from the factory. I have been told it should also have rear headrests but I am certain the car has not be altered apart from the wheels and the stereo.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

AMG69

I'm pretty sure this was standard on ALL OZ delivered 6.9's but was an Option on all other Oz 45SEL's.
sigh....sitting back contemplating the next purchase..!

Peter Anderson

I love the new alloys you've choosen Michael! Were they an easy bolt on, or did you have much tinkering? They give the car a brilliant new look.

And I have to say Serpico, that's a great photo. (My 280SE is in the same colour but not that shiney :wink: !)

Mforcer

Thanks Peter :) I think the wheels have a clean look which compliments the car very well.

The wheels were origianally made for the W126 which just so happens to share the same wheel dimensions including offset as the 116, as well as the 107 and 123. They are a perfect fit for the car and the only thing I needed to do to fit the wheels was use longer bolts than the steel wheels (the bolts could be the same as the regular alloys but I am not sure). The same wheel design was used on other later models which do not fit due to a different offset.

The change in tyre size and performance are certainly worth it and only make me wonder why more people don't do it, especially with 6.9s with their higher power and torque  :?:
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

oscar

Found pics today of alloy wheels for sale similar to those type pictured on Serpico's car, except they're chrome plated.
 
Are these MB factory chromed?

I've seen the early 70's colour-coded hubcap type wheel with hubcaps that are either completely chromed or unpainted but not those later 70's alloys chromed.  They look like a great alternative for someone wanting to update the look of their car without straying to far from the original.

Also, has anyone got any links I can read about wheel offsets, PCD, Tyre sizes, stud pattern etc???  How do you know what will fit 116's? Thanks.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

Mforcer

Quote from: "mb350"Found pics today of alloy wheels for sale similar to those type pictured on Serpico's car, except they're chrome plated.
 
Are these MB factory chromed?

I've seen the early 70's colour-coded hubcap type wheel with hubcaps that are either completely chromed or unpainted but not those later 70's alloys chromed.  They look like a great alternative for someone wanting to update the look of their car without straying to far from the original.

Also, has anyone got any links I can read about wheel offsets, PCD, Tyre sizes, stud pattern etc???  How do you know what will fit 116's? Thanks.

Original wheels were never chromed. From memory, chroming wheels is also banned in Europe due to the process causing the metal to be weakend. I also believe it is possible to apply a chrome paint to the wheels which looks the same and this is allowed in Europe. The USA would have different laws and when people are still allowed to ride in the back of pickup trucks, weakend rims may not be the main concern :?

As for what fits our cars, original wheels are either 6x14 or 6.5x14 with an offset of around 25. Rim width depended on the model and the market. AMG made wheels for these cars with 8x16 with offset of 11. Not that I have tried all wheel sizes but any wheel between theses sizes SHOULD fit. The only reason why it wouldn't is the inside of the rim being too small to fit the brakes.

As for tyres, original were 205/70-14 and the AMG recommended was 225/50-16 front and 245/35-16 rears (on the same size rims). I can not confirm that these wider tires will not rub against the car.

All the wheels use a stud pattern of 5-112. Nothing else will fit on our cars without doing VERY major work.

You may note that I keep referring back to AMG for details about making changes to our cars. Although most of their information has since been destroyed, they may be the only reliable source of what limits can be pushed. They would have analysed the cars to determine what they can do as well as what *should* be done for better performance and associated handling from the cars. They were engineers and not just all trial and error.

Any other questions?  :D
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

oscar

Yes I have one.  Thanks 450se for all the info. Regarding "offset", what is it?  Is that lateral distance between inside rim and outside of hub? Just a guess. Also what unit is it measured in? Thanks.
1973 350SE, my first & fave