Need new tires but which size?

[hans moleman]

My old tires are kinda bouncy and have flat spots so I need new ones, simple enough but the selection here in the states for 14" rims is pretty lousy. Since I'm forking over the cash I really had hoped to upgrade to a somewhat more robust tire like a 215 or 225 section width tire but the options are either 215/60 r14 (like Federal Formosa), 215/70 r14 (a handful of touring and ...SUV tires in this size) or 225/60 r14 (BF Goodrich T/A's). Looks like the 215/70's were standard on the 6.9 but lord do they look just a little bit like SUV tires, The BF Goodrich's are kinda pricey at ~$95usd a pop and smack of 70's muscle car (cool but perhaps not on a 450 sel) and the specs of the 215/60's suggest its significantly shorter than the oem tires (speedo) and they may look a little ricey and small. What are you guys running? Any suggestions or pics? I have Googled the death out of it with pretty much the same results popping up each time.

[jbrasile]

Hi Hans,

The original Michelin XWX's 215/70VR14  are available from Coker Tires but at  nose bleeding prices... The best solution for 6.9's is to upgrade the wheels to 15 inch bundt cakes and go 215/65VR15, Michelin being my personal choice.

If you don't want to spend the money, I'd go for the Michelin Harmony in 215/70SR14, quiet, long lasting and will give the car the proper look while staying with the original size.  The Tire Rack has them at $103.00ea

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=215%2F&ratio=70&diameter=14&manufacturer=Michelin&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=16&y=17

Again, my opinion...

Tks,

Joe

[nathan]

Dad bought some xwx,s last year. They were about 500-550 each. Alternatively, the 15 inch bundts can be bouts for about 600 each. Crazy prices but for 30 year old cars not too bad in one sense!

I know what u mean re the bog an look and the bfg,s. The white wall writ in doesn't quite suit the sophistication of a 116!

[s class]

The original sizes were :

280 : 185HR14
350 : 205/70HR14
450 : 205/70HR14 (or VR)
6.9 : 215/70VR14

Not a lot is available, but depending on your location, you may find Nankang 205/70HR14, and Vredesteen 205/70VR14.

Until recently, Bridgestone Australia still listed 205/70HR14 as being available in the ER60 (I think it was) model.  You may find some dealers still with stock.  Sadly these are not available in South Africa, otherwise I'd be jumping on them.  

I have tried 15" bundts with 225/60VR60, and 16" flat face wheels with 225/55VR16.  I would both cases to be a downgrade in terms of general comfort and handling.  Sure, ultimate grip is increased, but the ride becomes crashy with lots of tramlining problems.  

[Hemersam]

Have a look at the July, 2010, issue of Consumer Reports (WWW.ConsumerReports.org) magazine for an article on tire ratings. It might give you some helpful information.
Hemersam

[Mforcer]

I have tried 15" bundts with 225/60VR60, and 16" flat face wheels with 225/55VR16.  I would both cases to be a downgrade in terms of general comfort and handling.  Sure, ultimate grip is increased, but the ride becomes crashy with lots of tramlining problems.  

Sorry to take this thread a little off topic but I found that going to the larger rims alone does not decrease the ride or cause tramlining. When I originally went to 16" rims, I went for sport tires which did cause some tramlining but not enough to worry about when my steering gear was finally sorted. I have recently fitted a set of touring tires and the ride has improved, the tramlining gone and the performance is more than adequate for the old car.

[s class]

Mforcer, I can add to what you say by stating that with standard tyres, one can get away with less than perfect steering and suspension condition.  The problems become much more obvious (and unliveable) with larger tyres. 

My other complaint with bigger wheels and tyres is that they tend to be heavier, leading to greater unsprung mass. 

[s class]

The tendency to tramline or not depends more on rim offset than actual width. 

The 15" bundts are et23, which is low compared to the et30 of the standard rims, and I thought it was horrible.  I've got the same symptoms on one of my 6.9's with my 16" Lorinsers (et11 in front, et0 at the rear).  THe flat face rims I had on the 280SE at ome time were R129 alloys, (which have too high an offset).  I installed them with spacers that brought the effective offset back close to 30.  that combination had no real tramlining issues, just the vicious grip and turn-in from the 225 Potenzas. 

[gf]

i recently put  kelly tyres on mine, good price, lovely soft ride, quiet. but theyre not the best for sports car driving types. for most people these im sure are more than adequate. the original spare tyre is in the back and its a kelly too.

[hans moleman]

I tried to find the proper Kelly tire but struck out, Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 in 215/70 r14 seems like the most likely candidate so far. These tires seem to be very good all around performers from the reviews left by customers, they are available up the road and quite cheap at about $75 a piece I just can't drive the car 130mph anymore. With the garish white lettering flipped to the inside I think they would look the part. I was also considering upgrading the wheels to 15," w126ers but my fiance shot down the idea, she likes the bundts.

[jbrasile]

I used to have 15inch flat face wheels with 205/65HR15 MXV4's (in my opinion the best tire Michelin ever made for our cars!!!)  on my first MB, a 79 300SD, and when I installed them the ride and handling improved dramatically, much better than with the 14inch bundt cakes. I believe they were 7x15 et 25. The wheels were not MB original but made by Borbet, absolutely identical to the real stuff.

S class, I am surprised to hear you had problems with the 15 inch bundt's... I am planning to use a set on a client's 6.3, hopefully they will not give me any headaches.

One thing to watch when playing with different wheels and tires is unsprung weight, the larger the wheel/tire combination the heavier the assembly. That can affect suspension performance as well as the durability of components that were not designed for the extra lbs.

Tks,

Joe

[s class]

Joe, a lot of people use the 7Jx15et23 bundts on W116's and most are happy.  I haven't tried them on a 6.9, but on my steel-spring 280SE I had the following experience :

cons :
the increase in unsprung mass bothered me,
the tendency to tramline was annoying
ride was harder

pros :
much beefier looks
tyre availability
much increased ultimate grip
reduced body roll

At the end of the day, I have two sets of the 7Jx15et23, and neither set is in use.  Ultimately I will put one set on one of the 6.9s but that will be for poser value.  On the cars I drive (the other 6.9, the 280SE and the 450SL), all are 6.5Jx14et30 with 205/70HR14. 

Some may prefer the harder sportier ride with the 15" wheels, but to me the 14" wheels are an inportant part of the supple ride character of the cars, and something I'm not willing to give up. 

[mswcpt]

Hey s class -

I am also going to have to change all four tyres soon - some flat spots evident now after driving the car a bit on the open road and I had them looked at by Supa Quick  - I want to put the W116/W123 rims on the car (hubcaps are getting stolen here in CT alot - obviously I will keep the caps in a safe dry place). Do you know what width the rims are and best tyres you would suggest ? Thanks for your input as always!

M

[Mforcer]

cons :
the tendency to tramline was annoying

pros :
much increased ultimate grip

Choose tires without ultimate grip and you will not have such a large tramlining issue.

[jbrasile]

Tks for the tips S-Class, it's interesting that on my 300SD the 15inch flat face wheels did not cause any of those symptoms and the ride was very smooth as I mentioned, maybe because of the tires used?

At any rate, we will go for the 15 inch bundts for the 6.3 with  205/65VR15 Michelins, probably Pilot Sport

I just checked the original 15inch bundts available from MB and they are actually ET25, which is the same as the flate face wheels I used to have so I feel more confident that they will work well.

Joe