Author Topic: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?  (Read 1308 times)

Coesterg

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Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« on: 06 September 2020, 08:15 AM »
Hi everyone,

Considering to buy a Mercedes w116 450 SEL 6.9
Attached is the datacard.

What puzzles me is, that it says 340 SEL??
Never heard of that before.

Seller also says it's without air suspension?
I'm pretty sure that all 6.9 where with air suspension, so it might have been taken out for some reason?

Anyone who can tell more out of the attached datacard?

Thanx everyone and by the way I'm located in Denmark/Scandinavia.

Best regards
Casper

daantjie

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #1 on: 06 September 2020, 11:04 AM »
Hmmm yes that is odd ???

I do see the 100.985 motor on the data card, which is the 6.9 motor, so that looks good. 

Also, the 6.9 does not have air suspension, rather hydropneumatic, which is a combination of nitrogen damping supported by a hydraulic system, so even though there is "air" involved, it is not the same as found on other Benzes such as the 6.3 and 600.

Best thing would be to see the car in the flesh.  Look for the hydro suspension components and make sure the big V8 is in there, with the dry sump tank as well.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

Coesterg

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #2 on: 06 September 2020, 11:50 AM »
Hi Daniel and other readers,

Ok that fine with the engine then thanx Daniel.
I'm told the car has been imported from Abu Dhabi to Germany and then the seller in DK bought it.

I will go see it but there are no hydro suspension components only springs and shock absorbers!
That is what puzzles me as well that strange 340 SEL thing.

Regards from Casper

revilla

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #3 on: 06 September 2020, 12:45 PM »
Hello,

Yes, there are documented cases where the owner decided to remove the hydro system after dealing with the frustration to make it work sustainably.  When it works it works beautifully but when it doesn’t it’s known to present serious challenges to diagnose and repair. Can be costly too. Search the forum and you’ll see.

Good luck with your search.

Robert
Robert
W116 1977 280SEL & 1979 280SE

floyd111

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #4 on: 07 September 2020, 08:07 AM »
 :P I for one am extremely curious what's up with the 340SEL thing.
I can't imagine anyone issuing data cards at MB making that mistake.

Coesterg

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #5 on: 07 September 2020, 08:13 AM »
Copy that floyd111, it's not a MB happit to make mistakes:-)
@All; Anyone knowing anything?
As a supplement here is a picture of the aircon dash.
Doesn't look like a 6.9 Aircon instrument right?
Rgds Casper

raueda1

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #6 on: 07 September 2020, 08:40 AM »
Copy that floyd111, it's not a MB happit to make mistakes:-)
@All; Anyone knowing anything?
As a supplement here is a picture of the aircon dash.
Doesn't look like a 6.9 Aircon instrument right?
Rgds Casper
That's the aircon panel on a euro car, no problem there.  Mine has the same.  Be glad, the automatic AC version was a horror show.  Is there a knob or hole in the dash wood directly above the steering wheel?  If so that would indicate a 6.9.
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

Coesterg

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #7 on: 07 September 2020, 09:00 AM »
Hi Dave,

Thanx, and here is a picture properly showing the knob you're mentioning?

Rgds
Casper
« Last Edit: 07 September 2020, 09:27 AM by Coesterg »

daantjie

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #8 on: 07 September 2020, 09:35 AM »
Nope no dash knob thus no hydro suspension.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

floyd111

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #9 on: 07 September 2020, 09:36 AM »
I did a bit of checking, and apparently, mistakes, typos on data cards are more common than I thought.
This is what the data card says, except for the 340SEL:

Paintwork; 404 Milan Brown Metallic (such a shame)
Interior trim code: 905 Parchment velour

260 Elimination of type designation on rear lid (this means no "450sel on trunk lid)
261 Elimination of model designation on rear lid (this means no "6.9" on trunk lid)
401 Single seats up front
410 Electric sun roof
631 First Aid Box
640 Forged aluminum Bundt wheels with radial ply tyres
812 Rear mounted loud speaker(s)

Everything is pretty standard for a 6.9, if anything it's a very sparsely optioned 6.9.  The only thing I find odd is that it has rear speakers, but the car was a radio delete car......meaning the car came without a radio.  If the car had come with a radio then two things would be present

1) The "51" option block would have a number in it, and/or
2) The "Hinweis" block would have a number in it.  (this would be for special request brand of radio such as Grundig, Blaupunkt, Phillips, or Telefunken)

Neither are present, so I have to assume that either another mistake was made, (common) or by 1977 all 6.9 cars came with rear speakers whether a radio was present or not. 

How much of this card data is correct, when comparing it to the car at hand, Casper?

Coesterg

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #10 on: 07 September 2020, 10:06 AM »
Hi,

Thank you all, extremely useful info:-)
Here are my answers.

Paintwork; 404 Milan Brown Metallic (such a shame) -> Casper: The car is Black now:-(
Interior trim code: 905 Parchment velour -> Casper: The car has cognac leather seats now

260 Elimination of type designation on rear lid (this means no "450sel on trunk lid)-> Casper-> Correct
261 Elimination of model designation on rear lid (this means no "6.9" on trunk lid)-> Casper-> It has a 6.9 on the trunk lid
401 Single seats up front -> Casper- Correct
410 Electric sun roof -> Casper- Correct
631 First Aid Box -> Casper- Correct
640 Forged aluminum Bundt wheels with radial ply tyres -> Casper- correct
812 Rear mounted loud speaker(s) -> Casper- Correct

Everything is pretty standard for a 6.9, if anything it's a very sparsely optioned 6.9.  The only thing I find odd is that it has rear speakers, but the car was a radio delete car......meaning the car came without a radio.  If the car had come with a radio then two things would be present

1) The "51" option block would have a number in it, and/or
2) The "Hinweis" block would have a number in it.  (this would be for special request brand of radio such as Grundig, Blaupunkt, Phillips, or Telefunken)

Neither are present, so I have to assume that either another mistake was made, (common) or by 1977 all 6.9 cars came with rear speakers whether a radio was present or not.

How much of this card data is correct, when comparing it to the car at hand, Casper?
 -> Conclusion: A 6.9 without the special suspension, repainted, new upholstery, and radio is not in the car either. Makes it hard to trust the 81.000 km on the clock as well

Coesterg

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #11 on: 07 September 2020, 10:09 AM »
Pictures of the new interior and the loud speakers

raueda1

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #12 on: 07 September 2020, 10:30 AM »
Strikes me as a rather strange story.  The dashboard story suggests that if somebody removed the original suspension then they also replaced the wooden strip.  Why go to that trouble.  There DO seem to be very lightly optioned 6.9's out there, especially early ones.  Mine is a good example - MBtex, no sunroof, manual AC, black console (like your case, no wood). A good picture or 2 of the engine would dispel all doubts.
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

Coesterg

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #13 on: 07 September 2020, 10:44 AM »
Hi Dave,
You're right and the only pictures I don't have at the moment are the ones from the engine.
Didn't go check the car out yet before I learned more, which you now all helped me with.
Many thanx, I think it's not a 6.9 for me so better wait until a more original comes up.
Best regards
Casper

daantjie

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Re: Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9?
« Reply #14 on: 07 September 2020, 11:57 AM »
Hi Dave,
You're right and the only pictures I don't have at the moment are the ones from the engine.
Didn't go check the car out yet before I learned more, which you now all helped me with.
Many thanx, I think it's not a 6.9 for me so better wait until a more original comes up.
Best regards
Casper

I think this is wise.  These are rare cars but not THAT rare.  So if you are patient you wil find a nice one.  As always it's better to get a nice one from the start and pay up front, rather than getting a rough one which takes a lot  more money to get right.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber