Today we had a very bad rain storm. The drivers side floorboard is soaked on my 1980 300SD. Any idea where the water would be coming from or how to fix this? It appears to be coming down the side of wall of the floor board.
Just did a more detailed inspection and it appears to be coming down from under the dash, above the drivers left leg. :-\
Probably a rust hole in the firewall behind the fuse box.
So I guess I need to remove the fuse box and inspect?
Does anyone have a diagram that shows the location of the drivers side drain tubes? There may be a blockage but I have no idea where they are.
.
Hmmmm, so it looks like I have to remove the fuse box to pull back the insulative material on the drivers side. The passenger side is fine. Arrrg, anyone removed a fuse box?
jtwoods4,
This is a chronic problem on 116's. If the water is coming from the left in the direction of the fuse box, it is possible you have a firewall rust issue. I had the same thing happen with my 450SEL.
See image below of what we found once the fuse box was moved.
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010006-1.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010007-1.jpg)
Repair:
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010013-1.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010013-1.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010014-1.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010015.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/05-12-2010016.jpg)
To remove the fuse box you need to take out all the panels under the dash. You will see 4 10mm nuts that hold the box to the firewall. Once those are removed you can move the fusebox far enough to inspect under the firewall insulation.
Repairs are tricky to do correctly but if damage is not too extensive I suppose you can seal any rust holes.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Tks
Joe
Very nice detail. Thank you. My car was garage kept and has 100k miles so I doubt there is a rust issue. Is there any other way water could be draining into the drivers floorboard. I have heard people talk about drain holes and darin tubes but I have no idea where these are located.
Could be the windscreen rubber. I had that with my 115. It let a lot of water in during short trips in the rain.
Interesting I will need to check that. How did you fix the issue?
jtwoods4,
So was mine...but it can happen even on very well kept garaged cars.
Yes water could be coming in through the windshield gasket or the cowl drain hoses might be incorrectly positioned, they will dump water right on top of the steering column cover plate in the engine compartment. The drains are the two large tubes that curve down from the firewall near the brake booster, sometimes they are orange color.
If it is from the windshield, you need to replace the seal. If it's from the drains, just re-position them until no more water hits the above mentioned cover.
The best way to check where the water is coming from is to remove the panels under the dash, carpet and floor insulation. Take the car to a self-service car wash and have someone spray hi pressure water on to the windshield/cowl area while you check under the dash for leaks with a flash light, otherwise you will be chasing ghosts...
Tks,
Joe
I noticed water coming in at the hood release latch today as we had a lot of rain this morning. I was surprised as I don't suspect there to be any rust whatsoever on the vehicle. But then I noticed it was seeping around the bottom of the windshield glass, running over the inside of the gasket. So I guess I'll be swapping the gasket this weekend. In the meantime I turned the car around so that it's pointing ever so slightly downhill rather than uphill and this seems to have stopped (or at least greatly reduced) it for the time being.
I also noticed there's some moisture in the trunk wells that condenses on the lid. The darn trunk lining in the later models really hides this unless a lot of water gets in and pools up - I think I'll pull it out for now. I need to order more rubber soon...
Well I did some checking and the water appears to be coming in right next to the emergency brake pedal. The location in the engine compartment above the brake pedal is where the hood ring folds into. This is a little packet that water can collect in. Is it suppose to drain somewhere? See the picture below.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8047943746_5e978bd8d3.jpg)
.
MT is absolutely right.
In fact I think they drilled a hole in my car for the water to drain when I had the repair done, this was a design oversight from MB, the hole should have been there all along.
Still, the best way to check is from under the dash with a flashlight and all paneling/carpet/insulation removed.
By the way, you MUST remove the floor insulation in order to get it completely dry, otherwise the floor will rust from the inside. Getting it out is a painful and time consuming effort because there is an air duct in the way, it is possible to take the duct out without removing the center console but it is not easy...
Tks,
Joe
Can you take a picture of where the hole is drilled I'm going to do the same thing
I will check if they really put the hole in and post a picture.
Tks,
Joe
I had a similar problem too. Surprisingly the same side as your car, but in my case, it's RHD, so the issue wasn't hidden by the fusebox. However it was happening unnoticed, and it was only when the new sunroof seals and whatnot were being leak tested that water was seen ingressing into the passenger side foot well. There are a few picture of the repair too, however they did not drill the hole that Joe speaks of. When I see his pictures, I may take it up with the guys at the Mercedes specialist shop that done the work. (R107 have a similar design flaw, but I think their leak is typically behind the console area.)
Quote from: gavin116 on 21 July 2012, 10:24 AM
Just fetched the Benz back from having some repair works doing
Just fetched the Benz back from having some repair works doing.
So, the job at hand was to drop the sunroof tray and do some rust repairs. I was becoming more and more aware that there was something untoward, as I was getting a wet bum every time I drove the car when it was stood in the rain. Indeed I could see water tracking along the hood lining, dripping onto the driver's seat.
In late April, a phone call to John Haynes ascertained what the job entailed and the likely parts needed. The car was booked in for the end of June, and soon it became time to drop her off.
I bought a new front sunroof seal, I still had the new rear from a while back. Added to this I bought new front and rear screen rubbers as the front screen had to be removed to remove the sunroof tray with ease and to reduce the possibility of damage to the interior parts of the vehicle.
When I dropped the car off, we took a walk round, in addition to moving the electric aerial from the right side rear flank to the left rear flank that we had agreed on doing earlier, there were a few other items they picked up on. This included sticking down the boot (trunk) seal, and also looking at the steering box, as I have always had to continually correct the steering due to play in the system.
Some other issues were discussed including the rough idle, the fact that someone had a go at the warm-up regulator already, driving the unit down with a punch to try improve the running. I opted to leave this for the time being, my most urgent issue was to get the car watertight again.
I will take up the issue or rebuilding or replacing both the auxiliary air value and the warm-up regulator at the same time to see if I can get the car to idle smoothly and not to run at such high RPM when stationary. If I lower the idle speed with the nylon screw to 650, then she shakes violently, so I have to have the idle speed about 850/900 RPM, which equates to about 1200 when cold: dangerous when trying to maneuver the car out of a parking space. These RPM'S even higher when she is in 'P' or 'N'!
Back to the topic...
Out with the front windscreen to make matters easier for the removal of the sunroof. The body-shop cut the window gasket informing me they usually do it this way as a matter of course to prevent placing undue strain on the screen.
This suited me fine as not only did I have a small chip on my windscreen, but I had already decided to change the 33 year old seal as a matter of course. And well it worked too! The screen remained intact, the chrome surround was inserted prior to placement, and everything married well upon installation.
The front screen out
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12265.jpg)
The sunroof tray removed
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12264.jpg)
Upon removal rust was found to be present on both the front drainage channels. In addition, the sunroof drain on the front right side had perished and split.
Rust on the RHS sunroof drainage channel
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12255.jpg)
Rust on the LHS sunroof drainage channel
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12259.jpg)
The rust was removed and newly fabricated repair pieces welded in place. These were then smoothed and painted.
Sunroof tray repairs
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12270.jpg)(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12274.jpg)(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/garagecamupto27-06-12285.jpg)
The sunroof was then repatriated with the car, including replacing the sunroof drains that cost me an arm and a leg... A new head lining was installed at the same time. All-in-all a pleasing result. The wind deflector now pops up as it should. The sunroof has also been adjusted to sit nice and level.
New head lining
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/photo.jpg)
And then there was the nasty: Ye old leak test. On with the hosepipe, and the sunroof (prior to installing the new head lining) was dry as a bone, the front window gasket good too, but sadly water ingress into the cabin on the left. This came as both a surprise and a shock.
Nevertheless, the extent of the rust was not too large, but it had caused water to pool in the left front passenger foot well. I am not sure how they removed the foam pad, as you can see it is very neatly done (and neatly replaced too! after drying out). The footwell thankfully has no major rust, there was a little surface rust, but the majority of the rust seen in the picture is from removal of the rust in the upper bulkhead section dropping into the car.
The rust and water issues on the internal left front bulkhead
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/034.jpg) (http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/035.jpg)
The area was cut out and cleaned. A new piece of sheet metal fabricated and welded into place. Some sealer applied, it was etched and primed, whereafter it was painted.
Finished repair on the inside left bulkhead
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/002.jpg)
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/007.jpg)
The upper bulkhead section in the wheel well also received a new under seal although not shown here, it has been painted in body colour too.
The upper bulkhead section in the wheel well
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/001.jpg)
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p550/gavinW116/How%20to%20post%20photos%20201/Sunroof%20repair/005.jpg)
Alas, the aerial relocation was also not to go smooth. The old hole was sealed etc. and painted, a new hole was drilled in the opposite left rear flank. The aerial was mounted and connected up using the correct 4 pin Mercedes Benz plug, and it functioned well. Then, Ye old leak test...
Again water ingress was found in the boot, but lucky this time it was from the left tail light cluster. This was removed, and it was reseated using a sealing compound, and reinstalled. No more leaks! I will have them replace the right side, as I found it nearly impossible to marry the frame to the seal to the lens. That is why I didn't even try do the replacement seal on the right.
The trip back up to storage went smoothly, the steering is wonderful now, I don't have to constantly correct the direction. Nice to have the use of the sunroof, now if only the air-con...
So, what next?
I shall see, but I think I will probably try pulling the left front door card, dismantle it, and replace the sponge wadding to make the material less saggy. I also want to do an internal door service, but I need some guidance. I want to clean and lubricate things like the window channels, window winder regulator, the door-check straps, and what ever else you feel needs doing at this time. I will also cut a thick gauge plastic sheet to seal the door cavity before I replace the door card as I know this is missing. As I have new door lock vacuum diaphragms, I will replace these at the same time.
I have to repeat the process another three times I guess, including replacing the internal window wipes that I have not got round to doing on the other doors.
Oh, and perhaps a visit to Amsterdam in Mrs White before the close of summer.
Keep 116ing ;)
Gavin
I did not see that post before Gavin, but I must say, you have a wonderful serviceperson! I admire the work!
I think my rust-free SEL is about to go into the garage for winter hibernation, which will leave me driving a not-so-nice vehicle but one where further damage from the elements won't bother me. I've even toyed with the idea of using the rusty leaky partially-dismantled 1973 as a daily driver through this winter.
During it's hibernation, I will be taking the time to rebuild lots of the car and fix anything I can in the process. Although it's paint looks pretty good from a distance and shines up nicely, it does have a few spots along raised areas where it's worn thin could really use a new layer of paint too, so that may be final step in the process.
I've also discovered that humidity is a major issue here, as a woolen coat in my closet has grown lots of mold, as well as a couple spare leather W116 headrests in my garage! I think I'm going to invest in a dehumidifier or two for the garage soon. I gotta say I'm envying Squiggle Dog's relocation to the hot and dry southwest!
Ok Guys,
Here is the infamous drain hole that was added during the bodywork, I put a piece of vacuum tubing through it so you can see the location, it is at the very corner between the firewall and inner fender. Notice how they routed the drain under the fender, looks pretty factory doesn't it....
Hope info helps!
Tks,
Joe
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/Drainhole-firewall003.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/Drainhole-firewall004.jpg)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/MBClassic/Drainhole-firewall001.jpg)
Wow!!! This is the most comprehensive post on the internet regarding water leaks. Excellent photos everyone! Here is a great video I found explaining how to track down where the leak is coming from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbpqoZMpvAc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbpqoZMpvAc)
Well I found the thread about the drain holes!!! LOL! Here 'tis!
One other thing that I've found extremely important on a W116 is the tail light seals. Pull out a whole assembly and you'll realize all the rain that lands on the boot lid and the rear window is directed towards the top of the tail light assemblies! Old, hard and cracked seals will let this water inside to rust out your boot....
All I need is the part numbers and I'll be ordering lots of new ones.... Ye all should be doing the same! Does anyone know if they're available OEM via other retailers?
hi mate.
tail light seals are around $98 each genuine. getting harder to find.......try John Green Canberra 1st.
The US & German price was similar, last time I looked.
And another thing.......
Not to put too fine a point on it, the picture below shows what can happen when the water under the floor insulation goes undetected or is not fixed. I took the 1st picture some months ago of a 116 RHD spotted at the wreckers, that had the accelerator floor hinge completely rusted thru.
This caused me to check my own only to find the drivers side floor insulation wet. It seems the bottom of the accelerator pedal is notorious for gathering a small amount of water content, compounded by mud and pebbles. Obviously this comes every time you get in with wet shoes....the little bit of water has to sit somewhere. The 2nd picture shows my floor pan cleaned of surface rust and the wet (smelly) insulation cut out and thrown away.
The 3rd picture shows the back of my thrown out wet floor insulation and what it looked like from the back side.
I have since sealed the metal and replaced the insulation.
It pays to look!
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8658/acceleratorrustspot2.jpg)
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8231/acceleratorrustspot1.jpg)
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6334/acceleratorrustspot6.jpg)