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Just secured a 450 SEL 6.9 after bit of a chase (years)

Started by andrewk, 18 October 2022, 07:38 AM

ramiro

I think the long part was cutting until the saw gets into the pipe then it went fast for me , but atleast you got the pipe out.
Did you remove the oiline from the intake and also the hard metal vacum line that goes to the transmission from the back of the intake ?


andrewk

I have defeated the final boss and have the intake off.

Have spent the evening cleaning the intake area ready for new gaskets, the replacement manifold and the deletion of the EGR system. The amount of junk inside the intake (Carbon build up) was astonishing. I could not clean the lower section myself - it will be properly cleaned and blasted.

The seals between upper and lower half were awfully brittle and will be replaced with new ($400 USD!!)

One thing I learned is that the gaskets (VRS kits and inlet gaskets) are NLA and the water pump gaskets which go on the block... also NLA. There isn't a replacement option for the intake to head gasket as it's an alloy/composite type) I'm going to make a 2D model and cut modern water/steam gasket material on a vinyl cutter (Klinger 4430 which does not require sealant and can be cut easily).

More to follow. The saga continues


1979 450 SEL 6.9 (#5532) - silbergrün metallic

ramiro

What was the final trick to get it off ?
You can get the intake gaskets and serveral others when you buy a headgasket kit at MB , when i bought both sets i got 4 valve cover gaskets and 4 intake manifold gaskets and serveral others.
Part numbers are :
A 100 010 11 21 left side head gasket kit .
A 100 010 12 21 right side head gasket kit .

daantjie

Nice work 8)   yup those donut seals are knee buckling expensive and of course bespoke for the 6.9 which does not help  :o

Make sure you surgically clean the drain hole at the back of the block.  You'll never have as good an opportunity to do this than now.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

andrewk

Quote from: ramiro on 20 October 2023, 11:17 AMWhat was the final trick to get it off ?
You can get the intake gaskets and serveral others when you buy a headgasket kit at MB , when i bought both sets i got 4 valve cover gaskets and 4 intake manifold gaskets and serveral others.
Part numbers are :
A 100 010 11 21 left side head gasket kit .
A 100 010 12 21 right side head gasket kit .

The secret ingredient was... yelling (and the correct angle of removal towards the rear of the motor). Plus there was a pesky oil line attached to a bracket on the intake. Helps to undo everything first.

I now have all the pieces back from electroplating for reassembly of the intake and fuel system. Now I am just waiting for the intake from my mechanic friend - he is providing the donut seals, cleaning the lower half of the intake I supplied and will check the sealed intake with vacuum and smoke prior to reinstallation.

I still could not find the head gasket kits with those part numbers. I'll ask Classic Center about it. How much should I expect to pay for each kit?

I am curious about the sealing of the intake to the heads. I take it that I only need to use Reinzosil on the coolant pathways, but if there is a trick to ensuring that none goes into the coolant pathway, i'm all ears. First time doing such a job.

Does anyone have a source for EGR sealing plates? I am struggling to find a water jet or milling shop who can cut one from steel. I could just use a pipe fitting to seal the rear facing port on the EGR valve but prefer to do the job properly so there isn't lots of heat being generated adjacent to the brand new washer bottle I sourced (it is very hard to find a right hand drive 6.9 washer bottle)

The drain hole at the back of the block is now extremely clean. I have a very large puddle of crud on the workshop floor to prove it :P


1979 450 SEL 6.9 (#5532) - silbergrün metallic

ramiro

Yes you can only get the the Headgasket kit at the dealer , for me the Price is 315 Eur for 1 Side with 19% Vat , so not cheap if you only need the intake gaskets.
Here you can see what is included with 1000101121 : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254399840952 .
As far as i remember the intake gasket has some kind of metal inside so i am not sure if you can just cut it from paper.

rumb

'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS

andrewk

Quote from: ramiro on 24 October 2023, 07:10 AMYes you can only get the the Headgasket kit at the dealer , for me the Price is 315 Eur for 1 Side with 19% Vat , so not cheap if you only need the intake gaskets.
Here you can see what is included with 1000101121 : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254399840952 .
As far as i remember the intake gasket has some kind of metal inside so i am not sure if you can just cut it from paper.

I checked the Mercedes Benz parts site and the part did not appear, but I now see it on several other sites. Have now asked Classic Center as well, will hopefully hear back from them tomorrow. The dealer here is not a good option; 2-4x the price of Classic Center. Although the local parts interpreter guy is really helpful, the markup is extra painful and I only use MB dealer parts in an emergency where I can get them overnight from Melbourne, or not ship via air.

The intake gaskets have a composite construction; expanding rubber and thin metal inside. Similar to some types of head gaskets.

I am looking to have the water pump gaskets cut on a vinyl cutter from Klingersil 4430 material as the original gaskets for the water pump housing to block are not available. I'll make a 2D drawing in Solidworks and see how they work on a signwriting vinyl cutter (Roland DG etc). This material is superior to paper gaskets and should not require a gasket sealant applied, facilitating easy removal and better sealing. Specifications far exceed what is required and should give good protection to the flanges. If I find some "spare time" I can also test the gasket under pressure and heat, using an existing flange of same dimensions.

https://www.klinger.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/KLINGERSIL-C-4430-Data-Sheet.pdf
 
1979 450 SEL 6.9 (#5532) - silbergrün metallic

andrewk

I'm curious:

Does anyone have some insight into the EPC page relevant to the HPF pump? I need to figure out which screws go into it. I have a load of stuff back from plating and it seems the screws I have for installing the pump are two different lengths (3x shorter, 1x longer), or I have lost a screw somewhere.

I have looked on countless pages of the catalogue and have not found the pump to engine head diagram. A search for the pump's part number did not work either.
https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/epc/mercedes/1/fg/116036/040/32/001/

Thanks in advance.
1979 450 SEL 6.9 (#5532) - silbergrün metallic

raueda1

Quote from: andrewk on 23 October 2023, 08:09 PM
Quote from: ramiro on 20 October 2023, 11:17 AMWhat was the final trick to get it off ?
You can get the intake gaskets and serveral others when you buy a headgasket kit at MB , when i bought both sets i got 4 valve cover gaskets and 4 intake manifold gaskets and serveral others.
Part numbers are :
A 100 010 11 21 left side head gasket kit .
A 100 010 12 21 right side head gasket kit .

The secret ingredient was... yelling (and the correct angle of removal towards the rear of the motor). Plus there was a pesky oil line attached to a bracket on the intake. Helps to undo everything first.

I now have all the pieces back from electroplating for reassembly of the intake and fuel system. Now I am just waiting for the intake from my mechanic friend - he is providing the donut seals, cleaning the lower half of the intake I supplied and will check the sealed intake with vacuum and smoke prior to reinstallation.

I still could not find the head gasket kits with those part numbers. I'll ask Classic Center about it. How much should I expect to pay for each kit?

I am curious about the sealing of the intake to the heads. I take it that I only need to use Reinzosil on the coolant pathways, but if there is a trick to ensuring that none goes into the coolant pathway, i'm all ears. First time doing such a job.

Does anyone have a source for EGR sealing plates? I am struggling to find a water jet or milling shop who can cut one from steel. I could just use a pipe fitting to seal the rear facing port on the EGR valve but prefer to do the job properly so there isn't lots of heat being generated adjacent to the brand new washer bottle I sourced (it is very hard to find a right hand drive 6.9 washer bottle)

The drain hole at the back of the block is now extremely clean. I have a very large puddle of crud on the workshop floor to prove it :P

Beautiful shiny parts!  I'm envious at the fun you'll have putting it all back together.  Also great tom have a working block drain.  Mine had a mouse nest down there.  Looks like lots of progress.  Good luck and cheers,
-Dave
Now:  1976 6.9 Euro, 2015 GL550
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

daantjie

There are 2x short hex head cap bolts that hold the top of the pump to the body and 4x long ones that bolt the pump to the motor.

However if the 2x short bolts have been removed you will need to reseal the cover with a new o ring underneath and torqued to spec.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

andrewk

Quote from: daantjie on 27 October 2023, 09:32 AMThere are 2x short hex head cap bolts that hold the top of the pump to the body and 4x long ones that bolt the pump to the motor.

However if the 2x short bolts have been removed you will need to reseal the cover with a new o ring underneath and torqued to spec.

The pump is assembled (rebuilt by Martin Werminghausen), I just need to know the page for EPC to see the part numbers for the mounting to head. I have three long bolts and a single longer bolt which were grouped together but not sure which hole the longer one goes in.

My pump core (1994 date code) had a crack in the housing.
1979 450 SEL 6.9 (#5532) - silbergrün metallic

ramiro

I attached a screenshot from the EPC , interesting that you can buy directly from the classic center , in germany everything goes through official mercedes dealers but usually the prices are the same.

rumb

264    SCREW    003    N 000912 006046    -    $1.67
264    SCREW    001    N 000912 006070    -    $3.57

so there are 3 of one and one of the 4th. 

Sounds like the ones you have are correct.
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS

andrewk

#149
Quote from: rumb on 28 October 2023, 01:03 PM264    SCREW    003    N 000912 006046    -    $1.67
264    SCREW    001    N 000912 006070    -    $3.57

so there are 3 of one and one of the 4th. 

Sounds like the ones you have are correct.
Excellent. Thank you rumb & ramiro!

Does anyone know where I might be able to find the heater hoses? Both of mine are looking quite sad, and the whole area was full of crud. They seem NLA from MB. One connects to the heater pipe which goes through the intake manifold and to the water pump, the other connects to the intake manifold at the rear right of the motor.

I have received my front struts from Martin Werminghausen, two good struts built from four cores which had mismatched internals. Good used ball joints and new cups also supplied. Very very nice indeed.

In addition, I have also received the refurbished front strut mounts from Roland Merz Ersatzteile in Germany. They also had the small rubber pieces for the rear strut top mount - mine had deteriorated and I figure it is best to replace them rather than let them degrade further.





1979 450 SEL 6.9 (#5532) - silbergrün metallic