Author Topic: Ignition control module  (Read 384 times)

celberg

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Ignition control module
« on: 16 November 2018, 02:18 PM »
Is it possible to put an ignition control module 0227100001B (from a 1980 K-jet car ) in a 1975 116024 (a d-jet car) and will the motor run? Whats the difference between 0227051024B and 0227100001B?
350SL 1973
350SE 1975
SL500 1996

ptashek

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #1 on: 16 November 2018, 03:06 PM »
I'm near certain they're functionally identical. Inputs are certainly the same, and both have the same pin-outs on the two sockets.
But I haven't seen the internals of a 0227051024B, so can't say 100%. There's a few D-Jet owners here, I'm sure they'll be able to give a definitive answer.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

celberg

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #2 on: 25 November 2018, 12:11 PM »
I'll answer my own question. No, it won't work. Don't know why, but no ignition when I tried a K-jet icm in my D-jet.
350SL 1973
350SE 1975
SL500 1996

floyd111

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #3 on: 25 November 2018, 02:54 PM »
I would confirm the same, based on the choice of modules when buying aftermarket. During selection, you need to specify b4 or after 1975, as well as what engine you got.

ptashek

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #4 on: 25 November 2018, 03:33 PM »
If anyone has a failed 0227051024B they'd be willing to donate to "science", it would nicely complement the reversed engineered K-Jet module.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

UTn_boy

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #5 on: 26 November 2018, 03:32 PM »
Didn't the very first D-Jetronic W116 models use a carry over from the W108/W109 transistorized ignition systems, as well? (see picture below) If so, then there would be three type of switching units that were used. 

In the second picture is the inside of this same early unit.  It's a much simpler design, and just as easy to repair or make one like Lucas did with his.......but everything on the inside is coated with what looks to be the same material used on the insides of the engine blocks.  You'd literally have to scrape away the coating to reveal the values of the resistors, capacitors, diodes, and transistors.  Still, I'll probably give it a go when time permits. 

On a related note, my daily driver W109 still has and uses it's original ICM.  Almost 200,000 miles on it and right at 47 years old.  Still going!  And my Father's W116 450sel from 1979, same story.  215,000 miles, and still using the original ICM.  I guess it's luck, but I've never had one of these go bad. I hope the good fortune stays strong. haha   

1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

ptashek

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #6 on: 27 November 2018, 12:01 PM »
On a related note, my daily driver W109 still has and uses it's original ICM.  Almost 200,000 miles on it and right at 47 years old.  Still going!  And my Father's W116 450sel from 1979, same story.  215,000 miles, and still using the original ICM.  I guess it's luck, but I've never had one of these go bad. I hope the good fortune stays strong. haha

True. Even the totally oxidised, disintegrating 0227100001B I've used for reverse engineering was still working just fine.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

UTn_boy

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #7 on: 27 November 2018, 01:19 PM »
Lucas, with that one you reverse engineered having been so oxidized and corroded I'd imagine that heat dissipation would severely decrease.  If that's true, will the excess heat cause something inside of the unit to go open? 
1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

TJ 450

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #8 on: 27 November 2018, 08:11 PM »
Yep, these modules are about as bulletproof as electronics gets. There will always be some failures though, just rare.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394

ptashek

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #9 on: 28 November 2018, 02:09 PM »
Lucas, with that one you reverse engineered having been so oxidized and corroded I'd imagine that heat dissipation would severely decrease.  If that's true, will the excess heat cause something inside of the unit to go open?

In extreme cases, like my unit, the oxidisation warps the bottom connector element and its seal, allowing moisture/dirt ingress, and it all goes downhill from there. There's a seal under the top (mild steel) cover too, but that one seems unaffected. Eventually the two power elements (20W resistor, and power transistor) just overheat and burn out due to, as you have rightly said, severely lacking heat dissipation through the case. Mine was still working just fine, but it wasn't far from being scrap. A couple years more in our climate, and it might not have had a case to speak of anymore :O

The protective gel on the PCB itself, whatever it is (some kind of silicone is my guess), does a great job though.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)
1977 "Milan Brown" W116 350SE (parted out)

djenka018

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #10 on: 29 December 2018, 03:48 AM »
Is it possible to put an ignition control module 0227100001B (from a 1980 K-jet car ) in a 1975 116024 (a d-jet car) and will the motor run? Whats the difference between 0227051024B and 0227100001B?

I removed one of the 0227051024A from what I remember to be a 350SE (US iriginated) and I am almost certain its internals are near the same or identical.
The dwell angle setup may be different though.

I tried 0 227 100 042 from a 380 and it worked.
D-Jet or K-jet is irrelevant, they changed the ignition from one type to the other (breaker to breakerless inductive) and that made the ignition module change over.
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UTn_boy

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #11 on: 30 December 2018, 09:36 AM »
Is it possible to put an ignition control module 0227100001B (from a 1980 K-jet car ) in a 1975 116024 (a d-jet car) and will the motor run? Whats the difference between 0227051024B and 0227100001B?

I removed one of the 0227051024A from what I remember to be a 350SE (US iriginated) and I am almost certain its internals are near the same or identical.
The dwell angle setup may be different though.

I tried 0 227 100 042 from a 380 and it worked.
D-Jet or K-jet is irrelevant, they changed the ignition from one type to the other (breaker to breakerless inductive) and that made the ignition module change over.

I agree with what you're saying, but I still think that the early W116 cars (l1972-1973) used the same ICM's from the W108/W109 and last W111 coupe` and cabriolet cars because the part number is shared.  It may have only been for a handful of very early W116 cars, but it's certainly worth making mention of. 
1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

djenka018

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #12 on: 30 December 2018, 02:50 PM »

I agree with what you're saying, but I still think that the early W116 cars (l1972-1973) used the same ICM's from the W108/W109 and last W111 coupe` and cabriolet cars because the part number is shared.  It may have only been for a handful of very early W116 cars, but it's certainly worth making mention of. 

Indeed,
my observation was wrt reluctor (inductive) type of ignition only, which came about late 1974. Early ignition TSZ units must have been used across the board for all the cars before W116/107 e.g. W108, 109, 111. They also used 0 227 051 -006, -008 for W108 and -011 for W109 which were superseded by the -015

M116/M117 engine cars with breaker points used:
v1.0 - 0 227 051 015 (Germanium electronics, case as per your pic above)
v2.0 - 0 227 051 016 (Silicium electronics, case as per your pic)
v1.5 - 0 227 051 -012, -017 (Si or Ge electronics, hex shaped cover, cable not detachable)
v? .....0 227 051 022 (unsure how it looks, used as a substitute for -012 and -017
These ignition types were wired slightly differently between them and used grounded coil. TSZ switchgear was wired to break the power feed to the coil terminal 15, spark is referent to the GND side

Changeover from breaker distributor to reluctor (inductive) pickup (from ~Nov 1974 for W116)

1. 0 227 051 014 (a very short run, ribbed full alu case, 2 connectors - 1 for pickup and the other for power/coil)
2. 0 227 051 024 (alu case with a sheet metal lid, connections unchanged)
3. 0 227 100 001 (no apparent visible difference from #2)

Reluctor type ignition does not use grounded coil as the referent point, it is the terminal 15 which is connected towards the battery via resistors 0.4 and 0.6 Ohm. TSZ switchgear is wired to short the 'negative side' of the coil terminal 1

All this is info from the SM for M116/M117 engines, chapter 07.5-519
« Last Edit: 30 December 2018, 03:01 PM by djenka018 »
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djenka018

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Re: Ignition control module
« Reply #13 on: 30 December 2018, 02:52 PM »
0 227 051 014 -->
....>>and this below could be -022
please note that the ribs are smaller in comparison to -012/-017.
I tried to format, forum's format with images sucks
« Last Edit: 30 December 2018, 03:00 PM by djenka018 »
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