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Garage => Mechanicals => Topic started by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 08:38 AM

Title: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 08:38 AM
Yes, I decided it had to be done, so I removed it. Now that I have full access, I will repair everything in sight and have new A/C hoses made up to fit as well.

Again, removing the dash results in some damage in the LH corner, where the material tucks in forward of the A-Pillar. Fortunately this is not visible when installed, but it would be interesting to know who has removed a 116 dash without this problem.

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/24769-4/minus+heater.jpg) (http://gallery.w116.org/dl/24768-1/minus+heater.jpg)

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: s class on 21 December 2009, 09:03 AM
Dash removal projects present the strongest case I know of "while I'm in there".

Well done.  I know you have done a W126 dash before, but is this your first W116 dash?  How long did it take you to get out?
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 09:19 AM
It took about four hours to remove everything. This is indeed the first 116 dash I've removed myself, though I assisted Major Tom remove his, so I already knew how it came apart.

"While I'm in there"... yes, that is absolutely the case. I won't get too carried away, though. The main thing I'll do is treat and repair that rust, which is no longer active fortunately and replace a few grommets and the A/C hoses. 8)

The 126 dash is easier to remove, but only marginally so.

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 21 December 2009, 10:00 AM
hope you have better luck finding suitable adhesive foam, ive been everywhere today and came up with stuff all.

I have some and have done the fan motor housing, but thats it, its too hard for the delicate airbox flaps, will be interested to see what you come up with.

I do have however a bulk pack of bitumen tape for wrapping TX valves and internal pipeworks to prevent condensate dripping, which is an essential part of the reassembly.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 10:12 AM
I would just use standard foam with contact adhesive. As far I can see, that's how it was done originally. It's pretty thin foam though.

The bitumen tape sounds good. I noticed that my TX valve was replaced as part of the R134a conversion and the fittings are imperial.

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 21 December 2009, 10:15 AM
Quote from: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 10:12 AM
I would just use standard foam with contact adhesive. As far I can see, that's how it was done originally. It's pretty thin foam though.

The bitumen tape sounds good. I noticed that my TX valve was replaced as part of the R134a conversion and the fittings are imperial.

Tim

134a,  frikken hippies  ::) refrigeration flare connections are always imperial, well they were when i worked in the industry.

Where do you buy this standard foam from, ill get some tomorow. I still havent worked out how the hell im going to refoam the lowest removable section flaps for the front and rear foot vents. This section isnt servicable without drilling out all the rivets and slicing away the glue. But it will be done.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 10:21 AM
There's a place "south of the river" that deals with all sorts of foam. I'll have to have a look at what they've got.

Yeah, 134a, what a load of propaganda! 8)

I don't know about the bottom section, I haven't looked at it yet.

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 21 December 2009, 10:28 AM
your going to need to be more specific, I only have this week to refoam my box ;)

Where the hell is this place, or if your going, buy me some too ;)
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 10:37 AM
I haven't been there yet, but check it out...

http://www.joyce.com.au/page/industrial_foam.html (http://www.joyce.com.au/page/industrial_foam.html)

or...

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=vP5&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=foam+supplies+perth&fb=1&gl=au&hq=foam+supplies&hnear=perth&ei=-5QvS8PNK4zAsgPT9tTABA&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQtgMwAA (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=vP5&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=foam+supplies+perth&fb=1&gl=au&hq=foam+supplies&hnear=perth&ei=-5QvS8PNK4zAsgPT9tTABA&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQtgMwAA)

I don't know when I'll be going there though.

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 21 December 2009, 10:41 AM
heh, i know exactly where they are, i have a client 2 numbers up the street  8)

I might go for a nosey tomorrow.

Cheers!
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: koan on 21 December 2009, 11:23 AM
Quote from: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 08:38 AM
Again, removing the dash results in some damage in the LH corner, where the material tucks in forward of the Pillar.

What kind of damage?  Did you remove the A pillar trim?

The trims are not hard to remove, I had one off when running a wire to the interior light for alarm sensing (long story won;t go into details).

(Collecting info for when I make the commitment)

koan
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 21 December 2009, 11:37 AM
Everything was removed, it's the shape of the dash itself that's the problem. It curves in, in front of the A pillar, so that the dash is wider than the largest distance between both A pillars.

Something has to give, and it ends up with the plastic ripping or cracking in that area, which is unacceptable, but it happened. I haven't worked out a way around this.

When I get a chance, I'll take a photo of it.

Tim 
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: wbrian63 on 21 December 2009, 02:15 PM
The instructions from the W116 service manual say to press the corner of the dash opposite the steering wheel downward with a plastic wedge to allow it to be pulled out into the cab.

I can only guess this wasn't a big deal when the dash's were new in the box. On the 6.9 I'm parting out, I wanted to pull the dash intact so I could send it out to be refurbished for #521. Even with the windshield out, the amount of damage to the corner of the dash was enough that I decided it was better to junk it instead of trying to have it recovered.

I don't know what I'm going to do with the #521 dash when it comes time...

Parting out #1164 has yielded valuable "proper way to do it" information regarding a variety of removal issues, that should pay dividends when it comes time to do the same work on #521, assuming I can remember what I did on #1164 when the time comes...
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: oscar on 21 December 2009, 06:15 PM
Quote from: wbrian63 on 21 December 2009, 02:15 PM
The instructions from the W116 service manual say to press the corner of the dash opposite the steering wheel downward with a plastic wedge to allow it to be pulled out into the cab.

That's interesting, I don't remember trying that.  I just wonder how far you have to push.  I've only had the one opportunity to learn from a car I wrecked and suffice to say I couldn't get the dash out unscathed, even with roof, doors and glass removed.  I left about 3" of A pillar standing still to simulate a car intact but it was just too tight.  I wonder if the dash foam hardens and prevents an easier release and refitment.

Regarding foam TJ&MT, maybe a suggestion.  It seems this xmas I'll be taking on a new hobby, RC planes ;D using my 11yo as an excuse to finally get into it.  Anyway, all the foam planes from cheapies to quality ones have foamed and taped hinged control surfaces.  If there's a good RC place around Perth, which I know there will be, it might be worth going in there and having a look at their adhesive tapes.  Basically whatever they would use to repair or build hinged joints for ailerons etc.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 21 December 2009, 07:08 PM
on my 6.9 there is evidence of friction reducing black Teflon coated tape coated with some now non existant grease on the A pillars where the dash slots in. I've always been of the opinion that dash removal / installation on these cars only went smoothly when the cars were new and the dash's were soft. Now after 30 years every single one of them will be hard and crusty ready to crack at the first opportunity.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: WGB on 21 December 2009, 08:28 PM
I'm listening to all this but it looks a little scary to me.

Keep up the postings and teh pictures.

Bill
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: s class on 22 December 2009, 12:01 AM
Come now WGB, you know you want to remove your HVAC box - its the latest WA fashion....  bit of a concern that it sounds like a good way to stuff up one's dash. 

And Oscar, its even more concerning that with the glass out you still struggled.

I've got a confession to make - I've bought a surprisingly good dash out of a wreck 170km from where I live.  Part of the deal is that the labour at the scrap dealer have removed it for me.  I get to see what they've made of it in about 2 hours from now.  I'm more than slightly concerned that they will have stuffed it up.....
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 22 December 2009, 03:27 AM
I followed up your lead TJ, joyce dont sell to the public, however, they supply a retail store in myaree called "foam sales"

I have a wide selection of foams here which will no doubt be perfectly suitable for refoaming and rehinging the flaps.

The majority of the foams they manufacture can be custom sliced to the desired thickness too (soft, open cell foam is hard to get very thin though)

Next time your in the area, I'd appreciate your input and opinion of which foam is best to use. For the hinge foam, i have a 3 meter long, 1 meter wide roll of it. I can rehinge for the rest of my life if required  ::)
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 22 December 2009, 05:29 AM
Sounds good, MT. I'll check it out next time I'm down there.

The latest WA fashion indeed. ;)

It certainly is a good way to stuff up one's dash...

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/24775-4/dash1.jpg) (http://gallery.w116.org/dl/24774-1/dash1.jpg)

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/24778-4/dash2.jpg) (http://gallery.w116.org/dl/24777-1/dash2.jpg)

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 22 December 2009, 05:31 AM
thats the same place mine cracked too.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 22 December 2009, 05:35 AM
It's not the end of the world for me, because this dash is already cracked, but it would be a real pain if it was a good one. That just happens to be an area where it is very brittle from being exposed to the sun.

Tim
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: s class on 22 December 2009, 05:35 AM
TJ, is that an oh-so-70's brown dash?  Any cracks?

I got my ex scrap metal yard dash this morning.  For the most part I was impressed with how they got the dash out.  It only has some buckling on the one end, possibly not even as much as yours.

What annoyed me more is that they obviously used a screwdriver to lever out the instrument cluster, so there is now a pressure dent on the edge of the binnacle.  The vinyl isn't split, so I'm hoping I can massage it back to shape.  

The dash isn't perfect - it has a crack either side of the binnacle.  But its like 700 percent better than my 280SE's existing one which has several grand canyons in the centre and on the passenger side.  
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: Big_Richard on 22 December 2009, 05:37 AM
nothing a contoured dash mat wont fix ;)
Title: Re: I bit the bullet... HVAC refurb
Post by: TJ 450 on 22 December 2009, 05:44 AM
It has quite a few cracks, but they are small and mainly around the instrument binnacle. It's a brown dash to go with the Bambus interior that I am very fond of. It's totally '70s. 8)

I suppose, if the scrap yard dash was in good condition, it was probably more flexible.

Tim