Help with seized / locked up engine.

[koan]

A friend of mine has an old P76, he's actually the father of a guy I used to work with. He's getting on a bit, 92 I think but he still loves tinkering with his old P76.

After 3 or 4 months of not running while he did a carb rebuild the engine is now locked up solid. It is an alloy block V8,  think it was derived from the old Buick alloy engine.

Lots of WD-40 has been sprayed in the cylinders, please suggest anything more suitable..

Several folks have had a go at turning the engine with the crank pulley bolt or with a long bar between a pair of bolts in the damper hub, it won't budge either way.

It won't move a fraction of a millimeter.

I've checked for an external causes, things like a nut jammed in the between the pulley and the block, there's nothing, the starter has been removed just to make sure that's not somehow locking the flywheel.

Last time it ran it was very rich, all I can think of is the petrol washed oil off of the bores and rings have seized.to them.

Any other suggestions on the cause of the problem or how to overcome it?

Are alloy blocks prone to this?

koan

[oscar]

Phew, I thought this was going to be about your 6.9.

All I'll say is get them to try INOX.  It was recommended to me on here a long time ago and whilst I thought at the time all penetrant oils are basically the same they're not.  Or they can't be.  Like the old Castrol motto, oils aint oils, so too for this stuff.  INOX has worked on stubborn fastners when wd40 and rp7 wouldn't.  If there's a problem between rings and cylinder then that's what I'd try next.

But you wouldn't think a ring would seize the piston inside an alloy bore like they can in iron blocks, unless the cylinders have iron sleeves maybe? 

Lastly, a bright idea, is there any way to pump hot water through the coolant tract to heat the engine up?  That might help expand the cylinders and free it up a little.

[CraigS]

http://www.seized-engine.com/

[Niclas]

Ordinary Coke from Coca cola actually does the job, I tried it on my seized inline six Volvo Penta. I'm not sure that it works after you have put loads of oil in there.
Mine stood overnight with Coke in the cylinders and then the starter did the job.

/Niclas

[koan]

Phew, I thought this was going to be about your 6.9.

Doesn't bear thinking about, wash your mouth out with soap and water

I've tried to find Penetrine but seems to have disappeared, seen many mentions of INOX but lumped in with WD40 and RP7 which are not anywhere as good as Penetrine. I'll get some INOX and give it ago.

The stuff CraigS pointed at looks good but a quick search didn't find it in AUS.

I've come across folks recommending many liquids, diesel, ATF, brake fluid, vinegar and Coke among them, also dry ice shavings.

From what I gather the engine has iron sleeves so the the fact that the block is alloy makes no difference.

Hot water might work, a lot of full kettles needed to get the lump of metal heated though.

koan

[oscar]

About the hot water, the household hot water system is the answer.  I reckon remove both radiator hoses from the radiator then remove the thermostat and maybe leave the housing open or put it back together and leave the top hose off instead.  Then use rags as wadding around a garden hose prior to inserting it into the lower radiator hose.  Then run the garden hose back to the copper pipe from the household hot water system's pressure relief valve and activate it.  You should get the block warmed up pretty quickly before the pistons do and hopefully crack the ring bond.  This is assuming the guy's got an electric HWS but I'm sure you could think of some other way to get the HWS heated water to flow continuously into the garden hose.

For good measure throw in the diesel, ATF, brake fluid, vinegar, Coke and dry ice shavings but I think I've talked myself into believing the HWS flush will work.  Think I better google to see if anyone else has done it.

[CraigS]

You can also try this stuff - PB Blaster. It is available in Australia now. I used to buy it by the carton and ship it out of the US.

http://www.blastergroup.com.au/index.html

[pez]

PB Blaster is the best penetrant available....if you can get it, it'll work. 

[Jeaux]

My car was sitting in a barn for two years torn appart. The motor was locked up and the started had no chance.  I would not put soda pop in a engine!  I used Marval Mystery oil and poored about a cup in each cylinder and let that sit a week.  Still locked up.  In desperation I used a rod and a hammer and beat on the cam gears in the front of the engine.  Hammered on one gear in one diredction and the the other side and then reversed this beating in the other direction.   I was desperate.  After 30 min of beatings the starter turned over and oil went everywhere.  LOL   But It turns now.

[Niclas]

The Coke story:
I accidently sprayed water in to two of the carbs on my boat engine while watering it before putting it into the sea. Not a big deal I thought, it's just to start it later and the little water will blow out. Anyway I forgot to start it and it sat there for a week. When I tried to crank it the next week it was stuck.
I then tried to put a BIG screwdriver between a tooth on the flywheel and the block only 10-15mm away. I put all my weight on it - nothing happened.
I then put all my weight on it at the same time as a friend turned the key to engage the starter - nothing happended.
I also tried to knock hard on the teeth with  big hammer - nothing happened.
Then I put coke in there, waited over night and the day after it loosened with just the starter.
There is probably other more professional stuff out there but it's important that it eats rust, most oils don't. Oils usally reduce the friction between two moving parts.

/Niclas

[Jeaux]

Wow

[koan]

You can also try this stuff - PB Blaster. It is available in Australia now. I used to buy it by the carton and ship it out of the US.

PB Blaster is not on the shelf at Burson or Repco but found some not too far away. Intend to get some and give that a try.

It gets good write ups but don't want to get too optimistic. If it doesn't work it might be vinegar then coke.

I mentioned that the 4.4 litre. P76 engine is based on the Buick 215 ci engine which seems to be the starting point for small V8s used in English cars like Rover, Triumph and TVR but It was also the base for Repco's 3 litre F1 engine with overhead cams.

koan

[koan]

You can also try this stuff - PB Blaster. It is available in Australia now. I used to buy it by the carton and ship it out of the US.
http://www.blastergroup.com.au/index.html

Finally found someone who sells this, had to email the importer. Not cheap, $50 for two cans.

Will report if it works.

koan

[craigb]

Just read this one so pass on what I have heard. Old school guys have said soaking in Kero. I would say Inox based on experience. Don't know about the blaster. Coke would maybe concern me a little about leaving it in there if it didn't work knowing I have used it as a flux (instead of acid) and it worked beautifully.

Last suggestion is a product I discovered when on the farm called "freeze release" which worked a treat on siezed nuts. Not sure how it would go getting it around the perimeter of the ring surface in a V8. Maybe that is a problem with the other fluids tried in that you need enough that it penetrates all around the piston that is laying on an angle.

Good luck and let us know how that blaster stuff goes.

[koan]

An update, my mate sucked out the remnants of what ever he had tried previously and put a can of PB plaster in the cylinders. Using an improvised extension he put 5 second squirts in each plug hole in turn till he emptied the can and left it 24 hours.

The result - no change, still locked up solid.

At the moment he's fabricating a plate to allow a long length of angle iron to be attached to the front hub so he can apply more torque.

If that doesn't work it might be Coke.

koan