Got screwed, now I need your help

[hans moleman]

I had some pretty loose steering on the SEL and significant "juicy ness" in the vicinity of the steering box so I opted to treat my beloved Benz to a rebuilt box. All that happened in late November then our lovely New England weather took a turn for the worse until just recently. I have since decided I just can't live with the New steering box as it seems to be even worse than the old one, well I popped it out this evening and lo and behold the pre-load adjustment is already maxed out and there is a definite little clunk when the input shaft is gently wiggled. So the bastard sold me a known worn box, he is no longer in business and I need to reinstall the original box. Does anybody have any tips on how much to adjust the allen screw on top? My marks for dead ahead are now gone but I have an idea of where the hash mark on the sector shaft should be. I'm demoralized so any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[jbrasile]

Hans,

Sorry to hear about your problem, same thing happened to me a few years ago when I bought a " rebuilt" steering box for my 1980 450SEL from an internet vendor and guess what.... it was worse than the old one... Bit the bullet and got an MB reman unit which at the time cost 3 times what the other one did. Had to pay for labor twice too...

Bottom line, forget about those $350.00 rebuilt steering boxes from the internet. They most likely have only a new  seal kit installed, if that, and a coat of paint. Buy an original MB remanufactured unit and return that new car feel to your 116.

P/n is 116 460 10 01 - List: $719.38 - subject to confirmation of price  availability and core charge and we can give you 10% off, part would ship directly from the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center. At one time MB had no stk on the boxes but it looks like they do now, if worst comes to worst you can get the bearing kit, worm and sector kit and have a specialist rebuild either your "new" one or the original from the car. Had this done on the 77 6.9 we restored as well as a 79 350SL I am currently finishing.

Tks,

Joe Brasileiro
MBClassic.net
info@mbclassic.net

[Mforcer]

I agree, For the amount of money I had spent on "rebuilt" steering boxes (with offers to sell me others), I could have purchased a new one from MB. Never again will I waste my money.

[koan]

Does anybody have any tips on how much to adjust the allen screw on top?

On an old worn box about all you can do is find the centre of travel of the input shaft (see later in post),  unscrew the adjustment till there's no slack on the input shaft then unscrew the adjustment about 1/8 of a turn further.

After this it is ESSENTIAL that the box doesn't bind over its USED range. A bit tighter off centre is expected with a worn box and that's OK but if locks up anywhere then the adjustment screw needs to be screwed in a fraction at a time till it doesn't lock up.

By USED range I mean installed range, my box needs 3 and 1/4 turns to go lock to lock on the bench but only 2 and 1/2 turns installed so check what turns you get with box in the car and don't worry about binding/locking beyond this range.

To save fingers I made up a "handle" by drilling a hole in a bit of 2 x 1 timber and tapping it on the input shaft.

My marks for dead ahead are now gone but I have an idea of where the hash mark on the sector shaft should be.

There's a plug in the bottom of the box, take the plug out and look in the hole while winding input shaft, you'll see a hole in the piston when the box is centred. A pointed bolt can be used to lock the box central when installing. There's a mark on the end of the sector shaft, the matching mark on the steering arm should line up with it. Finally pull the horn pad off the steering wheel, there's a mark on the end of the shaft, install the steering coupling so the mark is vertical, to the bottom for LHD, to the top for RHD (think that's right). The steering wheel spokes should be horizontal with the mark vertical, if not pull the wheel off and put it back so it is. Remove the centering bolt from the steering box.

Get an alignment done and tell the guy to adjust the tie rods to get going straight when the steering wheel is horizontal.

koan

[hans moleman]

Thanks guys, I'm gonna fabricate the centering bolt when I get back tonight.  After lots of adjusting and fiddling I can see that my original box is really quite smooth during operation, not like the new one which clunks gently as the slop is taken up no matter how it is adjusted. For the time being I will have to recycle the old box and see what happens.

[TJ 450]

You will probably find that all they have done with this so-called reconditioned box is replace the seals... I have hear that this is quite common reading through various posts over the years.

If the old box is reasonable with regards to play, it might be best to have that one resealed.

Tim

[Squiggle Dog]

That is terrible news! My 1980 300SD had sloppy steering and a steering wheel shake. The alignment shop said the steering box is worn out and needs to be rebuilt. I had a spare steering box from a 1979 300SD so I installed it. The one from the 1979 was still sloppy and is causing almost as much steering wheel shake (plus the alignment that I just paid for is ruined).

I was going to buy one of these rebuilt units here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150523720846 but I take it that these are the ones that tend to be improperly rebuilt and a waste of money? Darn. Paying $300 for a steering box plus the alignment was going to be a big stretch. Paying almost $1,000 for one is really going to be difficult, but it's my daily driver now, so I'm going to have to. I guess that is to be expected after about 400,000 miles...

On the other hand, I can adjust the screw on top of the box and possibly correct the slop and wheel shake. If that works I can center the steering box and wheel, get another alignment, and that should get me by for a while.

[TJ 450]

The steering box won't create a shimmy through the wheel... that must be something else.

The best thing would be to try adjusting it if you can as you've said.

Tim

[Squiggle Dog]

The steering box won't create a shimmy through the wheel... that must be something else.

The best thing would be to try adjusting it if you can as you've said.

Tim

The alignment shop said it was the steering box that was bad, and I have heard that when they are really sloppy the valve inside gets confused as to which direction to send the power assist. The shop said wheels and tires are good, even rotated them, all suspension components are new genuine Mercedes parts (tie rods, center link, steering damper, ball joints, control arms, etc.).

[Squiggle Dog]

I also just checked the price of one from Mercedes (1164601001 -- don't know if it is new or rebuilt). $4,520.00! So, $719.38 would be a bargain...

[jbrasile]

Squiggle Dog,

Try to adjust your box as per Koan's instructions and you can at least try to cure some of the sloppiness.

I will check with the Classic Center the correct price for an MB rebuilt box and post it here.

Tks,

Joe

[Squiggle Dog]

Squiggle Dog,

Try to adjust your box as per Koan's instructions and you can at least try to cure some of the sloppiness.

I will check with the Classic Center the correct price for an MB rebuilt box and post it here.

Tks,

Joe

Thanks, I would be interested in knowing. I found a place that sells rebuilt quick ratio steering boxes. I'm looking at the picture, and does it look like the adjustment screw is backed out too far? If it's a good rebuild, I wouldn't think there should be much of the threads sticking out...

[hans moleman]

I got my steering box from some a$$hole in CA selling them on ebay, which isn't to say everyone from CA is an A$$hole or that sellers on ebay are all scum bags but buyer beware. I think a properly rebuilt steering box really shouldn't cost more than $500 max and honestly $500 is a significant amount of money, lets be honest. I think the lousy thing about ordering this sort of thing online is that even with a reputable shop you are likely to get bagged on shipping this heavy piece of iron and steel back and forth until a unit in good working order finally surfaces. I'm trying to get mine reinstalled tonight after adjusting, I was not able to adjust mine in situ, there just isn't enough room with the V8.

[koan]

Fixing a leaking steering box is a $50 seal kit an a few hours.

Fixing a worn steering box is going to cost a lot more, the piston and steering shaft are $1500 so any $500 rebuilt box is not going to have new parts, just seals.

The amount of thread sticking out of the shiny painted box suggests there is further adjustment available but the idea that a worn box can be adjusted "right' again overlooks one important thing.

Have a look at the following two pictures, they are borrowed from s class' excellent thread "6.9 steering box overhaul" here which is essential reading for anyone about to attack their box.





First picture shows the sector shaft, second the piston with rack teeth that engage with the sector shaft.  Look at the sector shaft, note the semicircular wear mark on the tooth. On the boxes I've had apart the wear amounts to about 0.1 to 0.2mm.

What happens when the sector shaft is pulled into the box with the adjustment screw (which is a movement to the left in the picture) is that a fresh, unworn part of the tooth now engages with the piston tooth, the box will feel nice and tight around the centre but it won't last, the actual area of tooth contact is minute and will wear away in a few thousand kms driving.

Wear is concentrated on on the middle tooth, the other teeth are hardly worn and any adjustment to tighten up the centre makes the box too tight off centre.

There's no way a worn steering box can be adjusted to it's original state with a tight spot straight ahead.

The only possible fix is a new sector shaft and piston or re-profiling the old ones, I believe there are places in AUS that do exactly that on Ford and Holden boxes.

koan

[jbrasile]

Squiggle Dog,

Classic Center replied..... $4520.00 for a new box!!! no comments.... they do not have rebuilt ones anymore.

Koan is absolutely right, a $500.00 " rebuilt"  will only have new seals. To do these properly you must replace the worm and sector, bearings, seals, etc.... with parts and  labor and I think you will spend between 1500.00 and 2000.00

S Class's post on the rebuild is super informative and illustrates the intricacies of tackling this project.

Bottom line is:

1) Any rebuilt box that costs less the $1500.00 is not really rebuilt
2) To improve steering try as much as possible to adjust your original box
3) Stay away from ebay, internet etc...
4) If you decide to do the job, buy the proper parts and have a reputable tech do it

Tks,

Joe