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emissions thread update - name these parts

Started by zeppelinboy, 05 May 2007, 04:01 PM

zeppelinboy

OK, so here is a new update to my emissions thread (herehttp://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/79-450sel-failed-emissions-help-please/0/).
I couldn't find the frequency valve, so I guess I do not have lambda, but I did find many interesting things taht I could not identify. I am uploading some pictures for help in identification and troubleshooting.

The first picture is an overview (locator shot) showing most of the components labled 1-10. The following pictures are zoomed in shots of the areas or components.

Read the next post for explanations/questions.

Overview



Blowup #1



Blowup#2



Blowup#3



Blowup #4



Blowup #5-8



Blowup #9



Blowup #10






zeppelinboy

So, let's just go in order of the pictures.


blowup # 1

Simple, what is it?

blowup #2

First, the red vacuum line labled #2 has no vacuum under any conditions, should it?
Second, the object labled #2a on the firewall seems to be missing vacuum connections. So what is it and what does it do. What should it be connected to?

blowup #3

3a and 3b are connected to some vacuum switch (3b was removed for clarity) neither 3a or 3b have vacuum present under any conditions, should they?

3c has no vacuum under any condition, should it?

3e is on the backside of object #4 and was "connected" to 3d by a rotted hole riddled piece of tubing. Tubing was replaced. No vacuum was present on 3d under any conditions, should there be vacuum?

blowup #4

what is it?

blowup # 5 - 8

5 was connected to #4 vacuum is present @ idle approximately 6 inches, when disconnected, the idle changes. Is this vacuum appropriate?

6 no vacuum present under any conditions, should there be?

7 vacuum present at idle 13 inches

8 same as #6

10 (not to be confuse with #10 in the overview or blowup #10) no vacuum, same as #6.

11 seems that a vacuum port is plugged off, I dont think that a sheet metal screw is MB issue. Where should this line be conncted to?

blowup #9

What is it? What does it do? None of the lines connected have any vacuum, should they?

blowup #10

What is it? It is connected to the PS head on one end and to the air cleaner on the other. It cycles (blows/sucks) with engine rpm.


Ok, guess that is it for now.

Thanks for your help!

oscar

#2
Hi Zep,

I'll just respond to one bit as I'd be making other stuff up.
Re parts #2, 2a, 7 & 8

2a is a vacuum switch over valve

2 is 8    and should be plumbed into 2a.  Not sure which side.  There should be another line go into that valve from the plenum chamber to the valve.  Actually, i can't remember where from and I'm looking for pics of k-jetronic 450's to check but can't tell.  Wait for more advice there.

white vac line 7 retards ignition / red vac line 8 advances.  I don't know where #6 comes into it.

Good set of pics Zep.


EDIT, your questions didn't show up for me when I previewed at first.  Anyway, just a quick add on re - 2 and 7.  There's a vacuum usually in one or the other.  It gets switched between the two in order to control ignition timing but the vacuum switch only acts on one line not both.  I'd be more precise but I'm confusing myself with logic.  Good luck.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

oscar

Is this the right diagram?  I tried that ALT Print Screen thing to show the pic but it wont copy to anything.  Anyway, click on the link and scroll down  to page 4


http://handbook.w116.org/Engine/107/M117_45/1974/14-001.pdf
1973 350SE, my first & fave

zeppelinboy

First of all, thanks for all the help so far.

I have been attempting to get all of the vacuum stuf sorted out, but nothing is where is should be, so it is nearly impossible to find where everything is. I am using the diagram that Patrick posted I have the same one in my Hanes manual. While it is an excellent functional diagram it provides nothing in the way of locating any of these components or ports. So lets get started with the questions.

#1 - Where is the auxillary air pump located? I cant seem to find one at all. Is it belt driven or electric? While we are at it, where are items 41,42, and 45 (45 is on the diagram, but not in the legend) from the emissions diagram as well? Also, where does the pump inject into the head? Front or back PS or DS?

#2 Please refer to the next two pictures for reference.
In the modified emissions diagram, I have labled the vacuum ports A-E, I have no idea where they actually exist on the engine. I think that I have found two of them B&C, but cannot be sure. I have these labled in the second picture. Are these correct? If so, where are ports A,D, & E located?

pic #1



pic#2




#3 In the above picture I have a component labled #60 as I hope this correspons to #60 on the emissions routing diagram. Is this correct?


#4 In the above and below pictures I have a spot labled black hole. It is nerly impossible to see down there and I have no idea how to actually reach anything in there, but there are two vac lines coming from what appears to be a 2 port switch similar to the part labled #60. I think this may be #61 from the emissions diagram. Is this correct? If not then where is #61 located and what is that thing down in the black hole?

pic#3




#5 IN the following picture I have appropriately labled an unknown part as "mystery part" I think that this may be the fuel tank vapor valve that Patrick mentioned earlier, either that or some sort of pressure regulator. Anyhow it has that red vac line connected to the bottom of it, the other end is connected to that black piece of tubing which connects the valve cover to the air cleaner. Is this a correct routing?

pic#4




Ok, I think that will do it for now.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

oscar

Hi Zep

I only just found out myself recently what the air pump looks like after I posted the pic below.  It's supposed to be belt driven.  This pic is from a 77 280se, the pump is that alternator looking thing in the middle of the pic.  Look around the front of your engine for something similar.

Regarding the rest.  At least you've got original hoses still attached so far as the colour codes will help.  And your pics are great.  Someone will be able to spot each part and say what should be where.

1973 350SE, my first & fave

Tomi

Lots of question Zeppelin, would be easier to deal if having only 1 or 2 figs per thread.

This looks different from an euro model, but there are clearly some missing parts. As the vacuum switch in the fire wall should be connected.

I could start with blow-up #3 which shows the auxilliary air valve. This is a simple thermostat with a sensor in the bottom which is dipped in the coolant underneath it. When the coolant is cold it is open and allows extra air to the intake manif. when the coolant temp rises this gradually blocks all extra air from entering and thus decreases the idle speed as the engine warms.

3d should therefore definitely have vacuum in it as it is directly connected to the intake. Maybe you have som many leaking tubes that you dont feel the vacuum.
This should case a high idle, if it would run at all. Keep tube 3e-3d in condition.

There should also be a vac tube to where you have the screw installed.



zeppelinboy


luiml73

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but is this this broken valve number 60 or 61 on the Diagram?
I found it on ebay and need to make sure if I need the blue or black valve. It's too dirty to tell color.





Would this cause a rough idle whennot connected?

Thanks

Luis


oversize

Don't you hate it when people start messing with things, or trying to 'fix' things when they actually make it worse??  The 'There I fixed it" series comes to mind!  >:( ??? ::)  I had someone do that to my old Ford XE ESP V8 and it drove me nuts for ages trying to relate diagrams and schematics to actual parts.  MB do it better than most but they're still not ideal; probably due to numerous versions worldwide
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P