Emissions Routing Problems Solved! Great info inside! - Finished Editing

Started by zeppelinboy, 09 May 2007, 03:07 AM

zeppelinboy

This thread is refering to a previous thread in which I was attemping to correct some vacuum/emission routing problems and was having difficulty identifying compoinents and what should be connected where.

That thread can be viewed here:
http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/emissions-thread-update-name-these-parts/0/

This thread will refer to pictures that are posted in the previous thread. If this is confusing I will edit this thread and include the pictures here.

The previous thread has some great advice, yet not all of it is applicable to my application 1979 450sel federal emissions.

This thread will hopefully clear up any confusion and will outline what I have done to get everything back in order. Hopefully if anyone runs into these problem in the future, this thread will serve as a good reference point.

zeppelinboy

Ok, so the first great step that I made in solving my problems is visiting the w116 library. It took quite some time to sift through all of the documents, but these are some that I found helpful:

Engine-107-M117_45-073-230.pdf

which can be found at:

http://handbook.w116.org/engine_77_l.htm

navigate to -> main function group 07.3 -> sub function group 230

also:

Engine-107-M117_45-1977-14-100.pdf

navigate to -> main function group 14 -> sub function group 100


These are excellent documents with some great pictures and diagrams.

I will use the following 4 diagrams to help explain the answers to the questions that I posed in the previous thread.

79 emissions #1



79 emissions #2



79 emissions #3



79 emissions #4


zeppelinboy

So here are the definitive answers to my questions.

#1 - Blowup #1 - This is the fuel pump safety switch. (Thanks Patrick!)

#2 - Blowup #2 - The red vac line is not a vac line but in reality it is a vent line for the pressure damper (part #26 in diagram 79 emissions #2). The red line is the same as part 3a in the same diagram. It was hooked up correctly. The pressure damper is also the item that I have labled "mystery part" in the previous post.

#3 - Blowup #2 - This part labled 2a is indeed the vacuum switchover valve (Thanks Oscar!). Please see part #9 in diagram 79 emissions #1. It is connected to the bottom of the vac advance unit on the distributor (blowup #5-8 part #7) and also to the contorted hose (part #81 in diagram 79 emissions #1) this is the same as the port which was blocked off with a screw in blowup #5-8 part #11

#4 - Blowup #3 - 3a and 3b are ports on the 40° vacuum switch. This is part #60 in diagram 79 emissions #1. 3a connects to the egr valve and 3b connects to the T fitting on the top of the vacuum advance unit on the side of the distributor (item #8 in blowup 5-8)

#5 - Blowup #3 - 3c is the very top port in diagram 79 emissions #1. It should not have much vacuum because it is before the throttle. It is connected to the exhaust pressure transducer.

#6 - Blowup #3 - 3d and 3e should be connected. They connect the bottom port of the warm up compensator (part #4 diagram 79 emissions #2) to the contoured hose (part #19 same diagram)

#7 - Blowup #4 - this is the above mention warm up compensator (Thanks Patrick!)

#8 - Blowup #5-8 - 5 is the vac line that connects the top port of the warm up compensator to the contorted hose (part #18 diagram 79 emissions #2)

#9 - Blowup #5-8 - 6 is the vac line that connects to the T on top of the vacuum advance unit on the distributor. This line goes down into the spot labled "the black hole" and connects to port #2 on the throttle body (see diagram 79 emissions #2 as well as 79 emissions #4)

#10 - Blowup #5-8 - 7 this line from the bottom of the vac advance unit on the distributor to the switchover valve on the firewall (see diagram 79 emissions #2)

#11 - Blowup #5-8 - 8 see question #4

#12 - Blowup #5-8 - 10 this line connects the exhaust pressure transducer to the true vacuum port (this is port C in pic#2 in the previous thread)

#13 - Blowup #5-8 - 11 see question #3

#14 - Blowup #9 - yes it is the exhaust pressure transducer (Thanks Patrick!)

#15 - This is the exhaust air check valve. On my model year and emissions package this serves as the air injection system. I have no air pump. When the exhaust pressure is negative, it pulls air from the air cleaner. When the pressure is positive, it prevents exhaust from entering the air cleaner.

#16 - Vacuum ports. Please refer to pic #1 and Pic #2 in the previous thread and diagram 79 emissions #4 in this thread.
In pic # 1 disregard the port labled D it doesn't exist it was replaced by the connection to the contoured hose in blowup #5-8 part #11. Anyhow port A in pic one corresponds to port B in pic 2. Port E in pic one corresponds to port C in pic 2. Ports B&C in pic one are down in the blackhole in pic 2 but correspond to ports 2&3 respectively in diagram79 emissions #4.


Whew! I think that covers everything. Let me know if it makes sense. Hope it will help somebody out one day.

Thanks again guys for your help!

Justin

s class

Thank you for the effort you put into this - its an asset to the site and the kind of thing that this place is all about. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

zeppelinboy

It did indeed pass. Even before all of the re-routing. I took it for testing after adjusting the timing and it passed with 200 ppm hydrocarbons. The limit was 400. I felt that this was still too high and am trying to get the engine back in proper running order.

Thanks again,

Justin

Brian Crump

Congrats Justin - you have had a hard task and done it well. In my books that makes you hero material.
Regards,
BC

Papalangi

79 diagrams 3 and 4 helped me figure out the rich mixture (8.5%CO at idle) problem I had.

Notice that the vacuum connections for the warmup regulator are reversed. I hooked my 1976 per the pre-79 diagram but it turned out I have a 79 warmup regulator so I was running in full load enrichment at all times.

Michael
'83 300SD, I'm back!  It's the son's new car (12/2020)
1976 450SEL, 116.033  Sold it to buy a '97 Crown Vic.  Made sense at the time.
1971 250C, 114.023
1976 280C
1970 250/8

CraigS

Are you now getting the correct CO2 figures now ? All WUR have different specifications, based on the CIS system it is used in, and it may be better to have the correct Bosch WUR rather than a later model one.

Quote from: Papalangi on 11 May 2007, 03:41 AM
79 diagrams 3 and 4 helped me figure out the rich mixture (8.5%CO at idle) problem I had.

Notice that the vacuum connections for the warmup regulator are reversed. I hooked my 1976 per the pre-79 diagram but it turned out I have a 79 warmup regulator so I was running in full load enrichment at all times.

Michael
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

Papalangi

I'm running 0.2-0.5 at idle now and it runs much smoother with better pick up.

I don't think you can get an earlier unit any more, the manual explains how to alter the mounting bracket when replacing the WUR.

I still have trouble with dieseling or run-on, even when I shut it off in gear so I'm leaning towards an injector thats not shutting off fully.

Michael
'83 300SD, I'm back!  It's the son's new car (12/2020)
1976 450SEL, 116.033  Sold it to buy a '97 Crown Vic.  Made sense at the time.
1971 250C, 114.023
1976 280C
1970 250/8

CraigS

Try running the car with some ATF (auto transmission fluid) in the fuel tank. This works as an upper cylinder lubricant, and will clean out the varnish that develops in the fuel line and components. You could put about 1 or 2lt in with a full tank without any problem. Can also be used oil - doesn't need to be new. A word of warning though. Have a spare fuel filter on hand as it will get dirty fairly quickly if there is gunk in the system.

Quote from: Papalangi on 11 May 2007, 03:52 AM
I'm running 0.2-0.5 at idle now and it runs much smoother with better pick up.

I don't think you can get an earlier unit any more, the manual explains how to alter the mounting bracket when replacing the WUR.

I still have trouble with dieseling or run-on, even when I shut it off in gear so I'm leaning towards an injector thats not shutting off fully.

Michael
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

Papalangi

I sucked a half can of Seafoam through a vacuum line, poured the rest in the intake and ran a can in the fuel tank with 5 gallons of gas.  It now seems to be worse than before so I wonder if something broke loose and is stuck in an injector.

Michael

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm
'83 300SD, I'm back!  It's the son's new car (12/2020)
1976 450SEL, 116.033  Sold it to buy a '97 Crown Vic.  Made sense at the time.
1971 250C, 114.023
1976 280C
1970 250/8

CraigS

Check the filter on the inlet side of the fuel distributor. It is inside the line going into the distributor. Be careful when dismantling it - there are small parts in there that can drop out.
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

Papalangi

Sounds like a good idea, I'll give it a looksee this weekend in between digging fence post holes and chasing my two year old down the street.

Michael
'83 300SD, I'm back!  It's the son's new car (12/2020)
1976 450SEL, 116.033  Sold it to buy a '97 Crown Vic.  Made sense at the time.
1971 250C, 114.023
1976 280C
1970 250/8

CraigS

With all of that Seafoam, and I have no idea what that is, but am guessing some sort of industrial cleaner for engines, you have probably disturbed some of the varnish in the lines, and/or your fuel filter at the tank is now completely clogged. Change of filter may be in order - even if relatively new.
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

Papalangi

Seafoam is a brand of fuel system cleaner, probably just overpriced ATF in a fancy can.

I don't think I have a plugged fuel filter as I have more than enough system pressure and the control pressure is within specs.  The car runs fine, no pinging or smoke, only a bit of hesitation when cold and still in the warm up cycle.

I do think there could be a problem with an injector or two and maybe with the WUR as far as it's linearity.

I need to check the hydraulic valve lash compensators as at least one is ticking and there is a slight lumpyness just off idle.

Michael
'83 300SD, I'm back!  It's the son's new car (12/2020)
1976 450SEL, 116.033  Sold it to buy a '97 Crown Vic.  Made sense at the time.
1971 250C, 114.023
1976 280C
1970 250/8