Does an W123 300SD 722.118 transmission fit on my W116 450SE ?

[geiz]

I'm talking already about this on my other topic, but I think it's better to seperate this question.

I can buy an 722.118 (part no. 123 270 28 01) automatic transmission out of an W123 300D including the torque converter.

Is this transmission type simmular to the 4-speed transmission, used for the W116 6-cylinder (M110) engines?

My question, does it mechanically fit to my M117 engine or can I exchange the bellhouse with my original transmission to make it fit?

Does anyone know the differences between this transmissions? (722.0 versus 722.1 series or more specific, differences between 722.004 & 722.118 )

Thanks!

[TJ 450]

I only know the differences between the 722.003 and 722.004 transmissions. What I was getting at before was that there are many common parts between them, if you were to rebuild yours.

I don't think that the any of the W123 transmissions would be up to the task, nor would the W116 280's four speed. There are lots of differences and they are not rated for the torque of the M117. I would suggest that you hunt around for a matching unit, unless you are prepared to take the risk. You could probably exchange the bellhousing if you were prepared to take the risk.

Tim

[Big_Richard]

also be aware that a 4 speed 450 would be an absolute rocket, perhaps its worth the risk

[Takernz]

diesel automatics had vacuum controlled shifting mechanisms, petrol automatics had a lever that connected to the throttle,(this is where you usually adjust the sooner or later of shifts).

also I think these autoboxes are 1-piece, they're cannot be swapped with another engines e.g. I6 to V8, M110 to M104,etc..

I'm thinking of swapping engines of my 280S from M110 to 3.2L M104 but manual transmission 5-spd are plenty in these engines.

[geiz]

Difficult ...

I think I will pick up the tranny and see if I can use it or not (420km driving, not like in e.g. Australia, in Holland it feels like 4200km driving with all the speed limits, traffic jam, annoying people driving way below the speed limit etc.) 

[Big_Richard]

Difficult ...

I think I will pick up the tranny and see if I can use it or not (420km driving, not like in e.g. Australia, in Holland it feels like 4200km driving with all the speed limits, traffic jam, annoying people driving way below the speed limit etc.) 

Umm, i think you'll find thats exactly how it is in Perth, Western australia

of all the 4 speed autos of that era, i think the turbo diesel version will be the most suitable to go on a  4.5 litre, because it's obviously able to deal with the low down torque of the diesel engine - if its an 80's or later w123 it will not fit as they use the later one peice transmission, it has to be a 70's model, and you will have to exchange the bellhousing and do some minor modifications.

[geiz]

I see it is vacuum controlled unfortunately. But the gearbox is in 2 pieces and the torque converter, axle and oil pump looks simmular.
I will pick it up tomorrow and see if I can combine them to make the original one work again.

[Big_Richard]

the diesel transmission 722.118 still uses a throttle pressure rod to determin shift points, and a vacuum modulator to determin shift harshness exactly the same as the v8 version. you will litterally just have to swap over the vacuum modulator, the throttle linkage rod and the bell housing and it should bolt straight up for a 4 speed conversion. Do let me know if this works. I have checked it out on the parts database.

You will still need to find a 4.5 torque converter as the diesel version is only 270mm in diameter versus the 310mm 4.5 litre version. Unless yours survived undamaged (sealing surface unscratched)

[geiz]

Thanks Patrick,

I have picked it up today.
The gearboxes looks very simmular to eachother. Seen from the outside: only the bell houses are different and the size of the torque converter are different. Also the vacuum part. Good to know that it is possible to rebuild the diesel gearbox with the throttle linkage. Now I will use the 4-spead gearbox for shure!

The axle with the worn splines and the frontpump are also the same. But how can I pull it out of the bell house?
Is it necessary to do it by heating up the bell house?  It looks like they are pressed on.

See my picture:


How to pull this out?


Backside


Different torque converter sizes

[Big_Richard]

ahh yes, we learned about this very problem with Tj's 6.9 transmission. There are 2 versions of that shaft, that version you have there with no lock ring securing it in there, is the version that isn't easily removed, or replaced.

If your 4.5 bell housing has the later type that is secured in there with a lock ring, i would simply purchase a brand new one from the dealer as they aren't easily interchangeable.

[chinny4290]

Try a W126 500SEL/560SEL 722. transmission. It's still the M117 but with the 722.

[TJ 450]

A W126 transmission will not work with the cast iron V8, or the standard tailshaft in the 450.

Yes, the early version of the stator shaft is pressed in. You will have to speak with a transmission specialist to source a replacement and to have it fitted; they cannot be purchased from a Mercedes dealer. Only the version with the circlip can be purchased from MB.

You may be able to swap over the stator shaft out of the diesel transmission as a last resort (it looks OK).

The smaller torque converter is not compatible.

Hope this info helps, I went through this with my 6.9's transmission.

Tim

[geiz]

That's what I want to do now, to use the stator shaft out of the 722.118.

But, the 722.118 has an circlip at the top side. But, it looks like it is impossible to get this clip off with the shaft installed in the bellhouse. Tried 1/2 an hour yesterday. To which side do I have to pull this shaft out? IS the idear to remove that circlip and pull the shaft backwards through the bellhouse or in the same way as on a 722.004 tranny, forewards out?

[TJ 450]

It should come out forwards on both transmissions. However, the one with the circlip doesn't fit the bellhousing with the one without the circlip... the hole is too small. You may have to have the hole reamed out on the original bellhousing, so that you can install the one with the circlip.

It has to be done very precisely, if you go down this path.

Tim

[TJ 450]

BTW, I have one brand new stator shaft (circlip version) here, as well as a used early version (not the worn one from my 6.9). 

Tim