Copper seal in A-C joint

[WGB]

Does Hychill require a "permit to procure"?

Bill

[oscar]

Definitely not.  However...
Although koan got cans from an auto parts shop, the same franchised store in Wagga refused to sell it to me.  I contacted Hychill direct and was told no licensing is required to procure or posess.  It is after all a propane/isobutane mix. 
I ended up getting a 4.5kg cylinder and the oil from someone I know that owns an ag' parts store.

Basically, the way I see it is - there's an industry group push to go r134a only and have HydroCarbon (HC's) banned totally.  Read into that what you will, there's too many fors and againsts and hypotheses to list.  If HC's ever need licensing to posess, every time you refill your BBQ cylinder you'll have to show that you're licensed.  That's not gonna happen.  IMO, the only valid criticism against HC use in cars is the potential flammability factor.  The campaigning has resulted in Qld outlawing HydroCarbon use for MVAC.  Hychill IMO are reluctant for any bad press to be associated with HC's and hence some sellers are reluctant to sell the stuff to any Joe off the street. 

If HyChill ever goes out of business, I'll join all the others that use BBQ gas as a refrigerant.  From what I remember, BBQ gas or straight propane is "wetter" whereas HR12 or now minus30 is dehydrated.  BBQ gas is not as refined or prepared as the Hychill stuff.  I've heard propane works too well and has led to evaporators freezing (in 90's Fords).  PatB's using it, from memory he's had no probs.   Personally, I'll stick with hychill for as long as I can then go BBQ gas as an alternative if there's nothing else.

Pros - go to hychill.com.au
Cons - search for VASA.

[koan]

The campaigning has resulted in Qld outlawing HydroCarbon use for MVAC.

Pros - go to hychill.com.au
Cons - search for VASA.

I thought even the QLD ban had been retracted.

Both sites are biased but there's lots of stuff out there, do some searching, especially leaks of gas into the passenger cabin. Serious research that looks at ignition temperatures, concentrations and other factors like ventilation suggests there's not a problem.

Don't read the VASA site before bed, could result in nightmares. They also neglect to mention the toxic products of R134A in fires which is one of their concerns about HCs.

I contrast the risk of 330 gms of hychill gas against that of 90 liters of petrol.

koan

[WGB]

Having seen and smelt the victims of car fires "in the flesh" as part of my occupation I have a natural reticence to anything that might catch fire inside the cabin.

It will take me time to come around to the mindset of dealing with the possibility of a flammable gas potentially accumulating in the footwells looking ernestly for an ignition source.

Maybe another couple of trips to the A/C Shop will cure me of this worry, but I will do some of the recommended background reading that you guys have suggested.

I know the hardest part of successfully running an older car is keepin the A/C running and it would be nice to be able to do it in my own time "In-House".

Bill

[oscar]

Having seen and smelt the victims of car fires "in the flesh" as part of my occupation I have a natural reticence to anything that might catch fire inside the cabin.

It will take me time to come around to the mindset of dealing with the possibility of a flammable gas potentially accumulating in the footwells looking ernestly for an ignition source.

WGB, I know what you mean, but those burns were no doubt from petrol and subsequently carpets and plastics etc.  Sustained combustion.  We're talking 330grams of gas in a closed system that's very unlikely to let go all at once.  At best (or worst), a crash causing a decent leak from an open circuit would cause rapid depressurising of the system.  As far as ignition is concerned, it wil be shortlived if the right 2-10% F/A ratio and heating conditions are met at the same time as the leak to cause ignition.  You'd get a flash rather than sustained burning from petrol. 

The slow leak hypothesis to the interior and the chance of a boom - if the leak occured, you'd smell it.  Open the doors and in no time the gas disperses.  I wonder what has more potential for danger, the internal leak, or standing around at a fuel station having your BBQ cylinder recharged. 

Keep in mind too that r134a and r12 are classed as non-flammable for storage and handling.  Both gasses and relevant oils are flammable (as most things are at some point) approx 460degC for HR12, 1100 for R12 and 650 for r134a.   Although HC's are more flammable with a lower igniting point, given ignition of R12 the byproducts are toxic to breathe.  If the closed cabin slow leak scenario happened with r134a, uncombusted, the gas is toxic to breathe too.

Like Koan says, there's a lot of biased propoganda out there, mostly favouring the heavyweight companies with more $ to create more positive spin about r134a and negatives about HC's.  Even MSDS about each gas I searched seemed to differ about toxicity depending on whose letterhead the MSDS is printed.  Good luck sifting through the info out there

[WGB]

Well the aircon lasted for two days and it is flat again.

Tonight I went down to my totally dark shed armed with a UV light from my Surgery and believe I might have found one small leak on the suction side.

There is a trace of wet green colour that fluoresces in the small gap between the end of the bracket and the side of the tube where the bracket is connected to the ?suction tube at the leading edge of the compressor bracket and my guess is that there is either a pinhole here or more likely a hairline crack. The tube itself has some superficial corrosion but there is a stress point at the site of this bracket.

I will see what the aircon place thinks of my suggestion.

Bill

[koan]

Well the aircon lasted for two days and it is flat again.

I might have found one small leak on the suction side.

Losing the whole charge in two days is a major leak.

I'd expect a lot of glowing green around the compressor, it would be every where.

koan

[WGB]

I must say I was expecting more.

Bill

[WGB]

Surprise, Surprise - they found the same leak I found.

I have the car back with the A-C depressurised and I will remove the pipework myself and have it repaired or rebuilt by an Engineering friend of mine .

Does anyone know the correct part number for a RHD 6.9 receiver-dryer - I find the EPC very confusing on this subject.

Bill

[koan]

Does anyone know the correct part number for a RHD 6.9 receiver-dryer - I find the EPC very confusing on this subject.
l

No answer to you question but are R12 and R134A receiver dryers the same, do they use the same desiccant?

koan

[CraigS]

The part number as far as I can see is 116 830 27 70. Why do you find it confusing Bill ?

[WGB]

No answer to you question but are R12 and R134A receiver dryers the same, do they use the same desiccant?

koan

As far as I know there is only one dessicant.

The part number as far as I can see is 116 830 27 70. Why do you find it confusing Bill ?

Thanks Craig.

The RHD 450 has it's Receiver/Drier on the right side of the radiator and does not have an extra port for the temperature sensor. The LHD 450 and all 6.9's have it on the left side. My EPC shows both cars having the receiver/drier on the right side with the part no 116 830 04 83.

This is the same number quoted by Diesel Motor in Perth (AU$160) who say that the two models use the same part number -116 830 04 83 - but they do not as they are mirror images of each other and the 6.9 has the extra port for the temperature gauge.

AutohausAZ quote US$19.61 for part no 116 830 04 83 and here is a link to the item  they supply on their website which I believe is the correct part for my 6.9.

AutohausAZ Link If you click on the small picture you will get a larger view.

Any way I have ordered the AutohausAZ one tonight and will see what arrives as the system has now been opened several times and I am sure the receiver/drier will be snafu by the time it is all back together.

Bill