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Adam's 450 SE Project

Started by thysonsacclaim, 09 November 2010, 05:05 PM

thysonsacclaim

#30
So here's the status on the 4.5:

I decided not to pull the whole engine and transmission out. I am going to reserve that for if/when I need to do transmission work. Also, I already half or more of the work done by the time I considered pulling it.

My work on the car had stopped a bit because of school, finances, job with new company and other life things that will tend to get in the way. So, this summer I decided to take off school. I've been going 5 years now and gone every semester and every summer. I figured it's time for a summer 'break' and finish up the car. I am hoping to also get the MS FI put in by the time the summer ends, but of course that will depend on how everything goes together.


I soaked the bay down in degreaser and gave it all a good go with a pressure washer. Cleaned again with a soft detergent and then rinsed. After that, all important areas were sprayed with solvent to speed up drying. Then, they were sprayed with WD-40 and coated in a thin layer of grease. This work isn't shown, but I'll grab those pics tomorrow.

So here are some pics:

RH view of the bay, before cleaning & left head still intact
The caking around the pistons is grease to keep water out.




Front view of bay




Front view with two necessary items: water and Deep Creep! Rust on hood to be addressed soon




Exhaust manifolds




After removal of head. The Left head is a bitch and a half to remove. :-X




Cleaning the water jackets. They were full of gunk, some block 100%




After coarse cleaning. Later, the water jackets were soaked with cleaner and pressure cleaned.




Off to the machine shop to do a valve job and swap rockers, keepers etc to reconditioned heads.
View of cylinder heads. Ones being replaced on the right, 'new' ones are on the left.


TJ 450

#31
Looking like excellent progress there indeed.

With the timing cover, I assume you removed the oil pump bolt before pulling it? 8)

It also looks like you have flat topped pistons there too, if so that's excellent... I never knew they existed for the M117.

Tim

Edit; Don't worry about the second 'paragraph', I just noted the gaping hole where the sump would be. 8)

What you have done will allow you to do a very thorough job... nice.
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

thysonsacclaim

Yeah, the oil pump was a little headache to remove. The crank shaft causes a bit of a clearance issue if not in the correct position IIRC. It cleaned up nicely and looked to be in good condition. I never had an issue with oil pressure either, even with the thick stuff (20W/50) I was running. I think I'll go with a lighter blend when this is done depending on what I find in the forum.

Regarding the flat topped pistons, yes I totally expected them to be scalloped. However I'm not sure as to the difference. I recall reading something (I think in the G Wagen conversion thread) about the difference being a performance thing?

Everything is getting cleaned up in diesel, though I would have preferred kerosene. It isn't easy to come by around here, I imagine I'd have to venture into the countryside to get it. Bolts, cam oilers, camshafts, etc are being soaked up. The bolts of course I'm putting anti-corrosion / anti-seize on.

Also, I was quite happy when the machinist knew exactly what the heads were from when I brought them in. He's done a lot of work on them since there used to be an import dealership / repair shop nearby that he did work for. They will look brand new when done AND they didn't need to be milled at all! Just the valve job  ;D

The clogging in the water jacket was very disturbing. I didn't get picture of it, but several of the holes on the block were entirely filled with green/orange/white gunk. After scraping that out, I put the pressure washer in the for some real debridement, displaced the water with solvents and then squirted grease and WD-40 on there for the time being to protect it all.

Should have pics of the cleaner engine bay today and I might give it another go since I won't want to squirt water in there when she's put back together.

Also, the replacement heads came with a bunch of extra head bolts, which I'm sure will come in handy.

TJ 450

Flat topped pistons equates to a higher compression ratio. It also means you need to run premium fuel.

Excellent news regarding the heads, I imagine they are just cleaning them or media blasting etc.

Every engine I have pulled the heads off thus far has had the same sediment and/or calcification etc. This is why it pays to use the correct coolant and flush it out periodically, as you'd be aware.

I'm not sure about Diesel as a cleaner, Kerosene leaves an oily residue though.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

1980sdga

Reassuring to know that your machinist is familiar with them!

Just a little advise...

I'd chase the head bolt holes in the block with some oil and an old bolt to clean the threads REALLY WELL. I also oil my head bolts when putting them back together.

Does anyone know if these headbolts hold up well to re-use?  I'm a pushrod V8/iron head guy and you can use the bolts over and over without any trouble. Not sure about MB.  I'd research it. 

Oh yea, follow your bolt sequence guide when torquing and don't torque them down to spec at one shot. 

You don't want to do this job too often so concentrate on getting everything right  ;D

TJ 450

#35
The bolts used here are OK for reuse so long as they are in good condition. Later engines starting with the M103/M102 employ TTY or stretch bolts, but these are not at all relevant to the W116.

I used an M10 tap and die to clean up the threads... some of them can be extremely crusty.

With these engines however, you need to slightly loosen and retighten the bolts after the engine has been brought to operating temperature the first time. All the details needed are contained within the service manual library on this site, just as an FYI.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

1980sdga

Quote from: TJ 450 on 03 May 2011, 12:26 PM

With these engines however, you need to slightly loosen and retighten the bolts after the engine has been brought to operating temperature the first time. All the details needed are contained within the service manual library on this site, just as an FYI.

Tim

Is this applicable to new gaskets as well?  Head gasket technology has changed a bit since our cars were built! New materials, composites, etc.

Just wondering.  I have little experience working on AL head motors...

koan

Quote from: TJ 450 on 03 May 2011, 12:26 PM

I used an M10 tap and die to clean up the threads... some of them can be extremely crusty.


If you don't have a tap get an old bolt the right size/thread and cut a slot diametrically across the thread then spread it with a screw driver.

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

thysonsacclaim

Thanks for all the tips guys, they're always helpful and appreciated. It's been a long road, and I am excited to see it slowly coming back together.  ;D


I just finished pressure washing the car again (really wanna make sure it is super clean). Then went on the house/gutters since I had it fired up anyway. Got some pics of progress coming in a bit.

Later, I will have the task of making sure all my parts are organized. I like to clear a spot on the ground to use as a template. All the bolts are bagged and marked, so I just lay them out according to where they would go in the bay. Hopefully I will remember it all! I didn't use a manual, except two or three times IIRC. Once for the oil pump I believe and once for the AC compressor, compliments of Koan.

QuoteFlat topped pistons equates to a higher compression ratio. It also means you need to run premium fuel.

TJ, yeah I thought it was something like that. It makes me wonder if they are original or not and what kind of cams I have. Would they change the cams for the pistons?


Re threads, I found Deep Creep helps clean up the threads a lot, but I wouldn't think it is sufficient on its own. What I've done is use Deep Creep to help remove the bolt. On the bad ones, I'm spraying the threads as they become visible and then re-seating the bolt to loosen it up. I also pressure washed the threads since they're right by the jackets and that's what I used the WD-40/grease for.

I was surprised how well they loosened up actually. Only had 2 or 3 that were hard as hell to get out.



Cheers all


Adam

thysonsacclaim

#39
A little update...

I talked to the shop yesterday and my heads will (finally) be finished by the weekend.

So, to refresh, what has been done?

1) Full valve job (of 32 valves I have, best were picked and surfaced to spec; all new seals & all new guides)
2) Full cleaning, of course (on practically everything)
3) Small corrosion spot on the head at one of the small ports was tigged up nicely
4) Every bolt has been cleaned thoroughly and checked out and I've bought extras + have extras from the other set of heads
5) Fuel injection parts have been cleaned up (injectors, new insulators, all new hoses, contacts cleaned, getting new connectors)
6) New timing gear (all new guides including bottom ones, new chain, new sprockets, tensioner.
7) New oil filter (even though the other has less than 200 miles on it).
8.) New fuel filter
9) Hand polishing the valve covers--despite being cast aluminum with a fair bit of impurity in them (they're not 6061 or 7075 quality, for example) they finish NICELY. I'm going to seal them with a clear coat made of a hard, flexible, non-chipping, chemical resistant, non-yellowing moisture curing urethane to keep them looking perfect. Will be investing in a polishing wheel, though. My fingernails are being wet sanded off! I highly recommend it if you like them bright AL colored.
10) All new FI hoses.
11) Cleaned fuel sender--it was in pretty good shape, so I think my issue is in the cluster assembly with my bouncy gauge.
12) Cleaned out the cooling system and have a flush kit to go in after assembly.
13) New belts will be coming soon.

And more to come, as most of you will remember (in order of supposed importance):

1) A/C is being converted & new hoses, drier, expansion valve (controversial, but what can you do? I hate R12)
2) Rims I am stripping the chrome, polishing the aluminum and sealing them.
3) MegaSquirt conversion--waiting until weeks after the engine is together, to avoid the issue of hard-to-troubleshoot ignition problems, I hope she fires up easily on assembly.
4) AL trim getting the same treatment as the rims, in time.
5) Plan to patch spots
6) Going to polish, clay bar and wax the car until I can afford a paint job. It still shines up nicely, despite the porosity of the paint.


btw, I am changing the title of this Post from "Pulling out the 4.5" to "Adam's 450 SE Project." For one I'm not pulling the engine out since I have been assured of the heartiness of the tranny, and I'd like to keep everything in one place.

thysonsacclaim

#40
I've just spent the day putting the heads on and what-not. Will edit and post pics shortly. I need a damn aspirin  ::)


Oh, and for what it's worth: the valves and head surface look amazing! The heads were decked by 2,000nths (.002 inches) or .051 mm.

Not sure what the compression increase will be (I may measure to find out), but that combined with the flat top pistons ought to be nice I hope.

1980sdga

.002 or .020 ? .002 isn't very much at all.  I believe that milling heads .030 on an 8.5:1 Chevy 350 would get you to 9:1 compression. Combustion chamber shape also comes into play as well.

I swear, MB engines were just sooo more advanced than the old US pushrod V8's...  They were what modern engines are!  The biggest improvements seem to be fuel management. MB was way ahead of the curve on that as well!

I know you're stoked  8)

Now, pics?

thysonsacclaim

#42
Yeah, two thousandths of an inch! Just around 50.8 microns. Not much at all. I was a bit surprised it didn't need much taken off. It won't likely make much of a difference, but I don't know if they have been decked before.

I got an answer on the pistons. I wasn't sure if the stock ones were flat or scalloped or if they changed it at some point. It appears that flat top was standard, though, from looking at replacement sets. I was hoping I had a higher compression engine  ::)

Stoked doesn't begin to describe! I feel like a kid at Christmas (minus the back breaking labor).  :D

Anyhow, here's some pics:


Exhaust side


Exhaust side again


Head surface


Head surface close up, valves look pretty nice


Old valves


Old valves again closer up


Box of old springs, valves, bolts, and seals


This jacket on the far left needed to be tigged. When they cleaned the head, some corrosion came off


And the other side. The ports are nice and smooth inside. I'm surprised how good they are for cast stock heads.


My pile of parts in the garage


Just put all the rockers, keepers, etc on.


Same thing


Both heads on, one camshaft to go.


From the passenger side. A bit more cleaning to go.


From driver's side.


And again.



Got a bit more work to go. My friend is coming over again today and with myseld and my brother, we will continue the effort and post more pics.

TJ 450

It's coming along very nicely indeed. 8)

Facing the heads should indeed only require an absolute minimum of material being removed. If I remember correctly, there isn't much room for skimming the heads.

I wasn't aware that the flat tops were standard. I have a set of D-Jet 450 pistons here with recesses, although I'm not sure what car the engine was from. I know the Australian ones had them.

Is yours a Euro?

Tim

1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

thysonsacclaim

Quote from: TJ 450 on 13 June 2011, 12:05 PM
I wasn't aware that the flat tops were standard. I have a set of D-Jet 450 pistons here with recesses, although I'm not sure what car the engine was from. I know the Australian ones had them.

Is yours a Euro?

I don't think so. The body isn't anyway as I have the park bench bumper and such. The pistons I looked at didn't say they were for a specific market. It is possible the motor was swapped at some point or at least the pistons. IIRC the block number matches on my data card. I haven't found anything conclusive, though, so it might be a bit early for me to say they were standard on all models.

I was thinking it may have been an early/late change, but that doesn't make a lot of sense if yours is also a D-Jet. What year is it? Mine's a '74. I thought most changes came with K-Jet.


Anyone know more?