Aaaarrrggggghhhhhh Need Help - Ignition Timing gone wrong....

[SELfor50]

Ok... well it's not as bad as you might think..   

I bought a timing light, got it cranking and it was on 0...

I went to remove the vac advance line and as i pulled it off the vac advance unit the whole line came off the connection at the bottom (inside the dark crevis where i can't see).
I know that it connects to another little elbow thing and when it came out, the bottom 1cm on the line was clean so it's been plugged in but obviously not very stable at all.
Now I can't get it back in.  Mainly cause i can't see but yeah...

Does this mean i have to remove everything in the way (including air intake / manifold thingy) to get at it??  I removed all the top off ol' smokey today so i'm pretty confident i can do it and put it back, just really annoying.

Can anyone else suggest an easier way to reconnect this line (and maybe a pic of where it goes so i do get it in the right hole  ) or part (b) Do i have to have it connected?

[Timing is now 10deg advanced now and seems to be ok.....though i also don't know how to identify the 'pinging' noise]

[oscar]

So is the elbow still attached to the advance unit? Or is that the part that's dropped off?

If it's just the rubber hose/elbow that's lost, my suggestion would be forgged aboud id.   Go to supershit now (late night shopping in the berra yeah? ) and buy some vacuum line by the meter.  Not sure of the outside diameter, maybe 7mm?? Take the one off the retard side (the other side of the advance unit, white line) and take it with you and compare.  It doesn't have to be an elbow, it's just a bent bit of straight rubber vac line.

Also, you should do timing with both lines disconnected. Also, also, at high revs, the vac advance wont make a lick of difference.   there's mechanical advance as well whereby weights in the dizzy advance ignition over a certain RPM, whatever that is but if you disconnect the vac lines, point the light at your timing marks, then pull at the accelerator linkage, you'll see your timing marks move to the left all by themselves.  Well, not by themselves, it's because of the mechanical advance.

BTW, 1cm clean line - that's fine, it doesn't need to be plugged in any further

Now go buy that vac line and don't fuck the car up before Sunday.

[CraigS]

I could be wrong, but I think he means that the vacuum tube has come off the elbow, and he can't see where to re-attach it. If so, they are a bastard. You can try a long dental type mirror, but if you can't get to it, there is not much option but to take the intake manifold off. Sorry !

[SELfor50]

Oscar, no caros fukd upos before sunday - os...  Won't happen!

But yeah... you're right craig - the elbow is still connected in there and i can't see where to connect it.  I'm gonna get a fukn bright torch tomorrow and a set of long tweakies (needle nose and long pliers) and try and hold it and push the vac line in.  After that, i guess i'll have to take the manifold off... 

But yeah, just to confirm - with the vac advance line not connected does that matter significantly?

[CraigS]

Well, it's not going to help it, but it will run of course. Just not as well as it would if it was connected.

But yeah, just to confirm - with the vac advance line not connected does that matter significantly?

[oscar]

Do you need it - I thought not essential for racing especially with you flooring the pedal and staying in L and S.  There's less vac in the line the more the throttle plate opens and thus less effect on the advance unit.  That's why the mech advance in the dizzy takes over.

My 350 has a non functioning vac advance part of the unit.  The diaphragm is punctured and makes no difference when connected or not.  So for the past 4 years i've just relied on mechanical advance alone.   Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get a new one I just keep spending $ on other gear so I've never compared.  But I thought the vac advance is useful only in lower revs when vac is at it's highest.

BTW, I thought the nipple on these dual can units on the advance side were sticking upwards.  If anything is in the way I thought maybe the ignition leads.  Take the dizzy cap off Cam with wires still attached, fold it back over towards the air filter housing and then see if you got a better view of the connections or not.  Just a thought.

[SELfor50]

Ok... well now there's absolutely no ignition.

Not because of mechanics... but because i'm a DUMB MUTHAFUCKA and can't find my FUKN KEY!!!
I took it off my keyring today and after my last run it's gone somewhere and i can't find the MUTHFUCKA!!!!!  I've search for an hour.  I only walked out of the garage into the house - where the fuck can it go?!?!  I gotta go out for dinner and this isn't helping....

Will Talk more on Ignition when i can actually find my fukn key...   

[a VERY ANGRY] Cam. 

[13B]

Have you pulled it off near where it joins the throttle body up the back of the motor?

How'd you manage that?  Anyway the exposed hole will be sucking air which will put may or may not put out your air/fuel ratios but not really that much since you spend most of your time either on WOT or no throttle.  If you were rallying or offroading where fine dust accumulation is a problem then its a very real concern, otherwise you can probably get by for a couple of days and the sutton event with it as-is.

[Timing is now 10deg advanced now and seems to be ok.....though i also don't know how to identify the 'pinging' noise]

Pinging noise is quite distinctive, I'm sure you've heard it before if you've tried to accelerate out of a corner in 3rd gear at too low a speed. 

Try this, get the datsun 120Y and try to accelerate up a hill in 4th gear and you'll hear pinging.  I used to have a Fraud Laser Sports twin carb car with the high-comp engine and running on unleaded it would ping in 5th if I tried to drive up a hill.  Had to drop down to 3rd most times.

Hey are you running avgas this weekend bro??

Ian.

[SELfor50]

Nup - it's the one that goes to the front of the engine.  The one that goes up the back is still on.

I'll get it sorted before the weekend - no stress.

No AVGAS 
I rang round plenty places, Shell told me that I can get it off this bloke at canberra airport but he said he's only allowed to sell it to planes.  I told him i can fly but that wasn't any good.
It'll just have to be Shell V-Power with octane boost and advanced accordingly.

Still havent' found the fukn key - so my mission for this morning is ripping the door lock off and getting it into the locksmiths who are gonna make another key for me.
Should only be bout $50 if i do the work of getting the door lock off.

Any suggestions for ripping the trim off?  (going to tackle now)

[WGB]

I did the same thing with my 6.9 when the plastic tube snapped and I found the manifold end had not been connected so it fell down into the V.

1) I found a new length of the correct sized tube and threaded it through the maze of pipes and pulled it out the other end with a long skinny pair if pliers.
2) Cut the nurgled bit off and fitted a new elbow on the manifold end
3 with the long tube sticking out near it's fitting onto the distributor I was able to turn and align the elbow onto the small brass tube that sticks out at the base of the K-Jet air-plate assembly on the left hand side (Right hand side looking from the front).
4) Push it onto the fitting with a screwdriver - gently
5) Cut the other end to length and push it into it's elbow on the distributor.

Fiddly but not impossible.

I also found a very exotic flat headed allen keyed bolt which was sitting down n the V and was easily removed with a magnet.

I will go and have a look at my Euro 450 with K-jet tonight and see if it is different to the 6.9 but should be similar.

Bill

[SELfor50]

Thanks Bill!!
As always, solid advice!

I'll tackle this tonight after I:

a) Get a new key cut 
b) Figure out what i've fukn blown so now the car won't start at all but there's power everywhere.   
c) Bang my head on the wall for a couple hours 
d) Smoke a pack of cigarettes 



Harddrive magnets connected to a long screw driver work a treat for retrieving lost screws / metal items in the engine! 

Cam.

[WGB]

After all that - suggest you approach it with a clear head and a steady hand and plenty of time - just in case it doesn't go on first time

Bill

[Andrew280SEL]

a) Get a new key cut 
b) [..] now the car won't start at all but there's power everywhere.   

Don't they go hand in hand?

I'm just yanking ya!  

Good luck with it mate.

[SELfor50]

All done, back together (including all the trim / door / ignition barrel / instrument cluster)
I have a new key.

Will post pics of everything back together and working tomorrow (including the vac advance line)

I've had enough of cars for one day.  I'm going to have a beer! 

[Papalangi]

Don't think this will help with your disconnected hose but when I replaced a vacuum line at the throttle body, I stared down into the dark depths for a while before I had an idea.  And it actually worked!

I cut a length of hose and put a piece of braizing rod that was a bit longer in it.  By putting the end of the braizing rod into the nipple on the throttle body, I was able to push the hose onto the nipple in one try.

Michael