73 450SE ignition woes

[xcaeon]

Hiya

Before I ask anything I'd just like to say a big thank you for having the service manuals here. They have helped immensely.

I've had my 73 450se for about a six months so far. Even since I first purchased it, it would like to stutter or cut out while driving down the road. More recently after replacing the majority of my ignition system the car ran fine for about a week. The symptoms started again but this time worsened. At one point while slowing down to a red light the car shut off almost instantly and took about a minute to restart. I drove it back home and it hasn't been able to move since.

I have replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points and coil recently. The problem I've realized is that I'm not producing any spark. I've tested for continuity and voltage across everything I can think of including the ignition control unit (if there is any other way to test this I would love to know).

Two last asides:

The Bosch ICU part number I have is 0027051014. This is causing a bit of confusion as the only number i can find for my car anywhere is 0027051024.
I am also not sure if this is a euro model. I do have the true dual exhaust but I'm unsure about the cams etc.

Thanks in advance and have a good one!

[450semy012475]

hi everyone. I'm also new here and thank you for this wonderful site.
i also have the same problem with my ' 73 450se which i got a month ago.
now that I'm able to post something here, i would like to take this chance to ask all the good hearted experienced experts here
about my other problems

1. having problem with my steering gearbox its leaking from where the tube from the steering column is connected. i dont know if it can be fixed with a repair kit or not. but i already tighten the hose that connects from steering pump to the gear box. (is there a easyway to to disconnect the gearbox from the steering column? its too tight to turn and loosen it.) and if there is any way that i can get a step  by step procedure to remove and install it( i hope i can).

2. my exhaust manifold on the driver side (left side I'm in california by the way) is leaking and making a terrible noise. i was thinkin its gonna be easier for me to replace the gasket if if the steering gearbox is out of the way. what you think??? any help/advice will be greatly appreciated and super thank you in advance.

[koan]

1. having problem with my steering gearbox its leaking from where the tube from the steering column is connected. i dont know if it can be fixed with a repair kit or not.

A new seal will probably fix the leak at the input shaft but it might be worth replacing the steering shaft seal as well. Or go the whole way with a re-seal kit.

(is there a easyway to to disconnect the gearbox from the steering column? it too tight to turn and loosen it.) and if there is any way that i can get a step  by step procedure to remove and install it( i hope i can).

There is only one way to disconnect the column shaft from the steering box and that is to remove the two hex socket head (6mm) bolts from the steering coupling and slide the coupling clear of the splines on the steering box input shaft. Note the bolts need to be removed from the coupling.

It sounds like you might be trying to undo the large locknut on the piece that holds/adjusts  the input shaft bearing. This doesn't need to be removed to replace the seal.

Have a look in the library under your model, go to "Chassis and Body Manual", group 46 Steering, Job 412 for removal. It calls for special tools but generic ball joint tools will do the job. You might want to look at all jobs related to steering.

With the steering box out and pitman arm removed it is a an easy job to remove the retaining circlips and prize out the old seals and replace them.

2

I leave that to someone who has experience with LHD sixes.

koan

[koan]

Again have a look in the library for you car, or in this case engine. In the ignition section I see both the numbers you quote, one for early one for late.

BTW would have been a good idea to start a new thread on the steering box.

koan

[s class]

If you remove the steering box, you need to realise that the coupling above the steering box has a splined fitting on the steering box side.  Its important to mark this so that it can be reinstalled exactly the same asit came out, otherwise your steering box will be off centre.  In a benz, it is not acceptable to remove and refit the steering wheel to compensate for errors in the coupling installation.

koan, his car is a M117, not a six.  It will be tricky to remove the LH manifold with the steering box in situ, but I suspect it can be done.  You need to check the on-line manual. 

[koan]

koan, his car is a M117, not a six.  It will be tricky to remove the LH manifold with the steering box in situ, but I suspect it can be done.  You need to check the on-line manual. 

Yeah I know that   I looked up 450SE in the library when getting the steering box removal job number.

Don't quite know what happened in the brain while I was typing, maybe I was fantasizing about Carl's engine with all its shiny bits

koan

[450semy012475]

thank you guys for the response. i will definetely put a mark on the shaft and the gearbox before i deal with the hard to turn 6mm coupling nuts.
and i hope that my steering gearbox just needs the repair seal kit and doesnt need to be replace with a new one. was also reading the threads about the filter for the power steering reservoir. i dont think mine has one.

with respect to the steering leak. is it true that automatic transmission fluid is not to be used with the power steering??? the reservoir cap says "Nur Automatic Transmission Fluid" im not german but i believe "Nur" in german means ONLY. does ATF ruins the rubber seals? i know seals does wear out in time. any inputs?

also with my exhaust manifold the experts are charging me an arm and a leg to have it fixed. one shop that i went to told me right away that they dont want to do it becuase its an old car and would probably need a machine shop to remove the bolts which charges like 90usd an hour. i tried putting wd40 and tried turnin the bolts was succesful with it. so im convincing my self that i can do it if i will have more room underneath to pull it out. will see after i make any progress with the leak.

i would like to profusely apologize for not making a new thread with the gearbox. i'll try to do better next time. to be honest i really wanted to post my concerns from the very first day that i joined. but with the help of your online manual and the advices that you gave on previous threads i was able to deal and solve my other concerns. again thank you.

with my car the original parts catalog that comes with the owners manual says that it is a '73 450se-450sel 116. now im kinda confuse. is it really that my car belong to the 117's? also i check with my vin number it says 116.032 but what do i know???

again my gratitude is overwhelming that i come across with this medium and special mention to you mr s class and mr koan. thank you.

[s class]

Your car is a W116.  W = Wagen in german.  This refers to the chassis.  your car's full chassis number is :

116 032 12 xx xxxx
116 = chassis type
032 = sub-type, and in this case, 032 means 4.5 litre engine, short wheel base
12 = left hand drive, automatic transmission
xx xxxx = sequence number

Your engine is a M117.  M = Motoren in german.

your car's full engine number is :

117 98y 12 zz zzzz

117 = engine type (4.5 litre V-8)
98y = subtype.  I think in your case y will be 2 or 3 for a D-jet injection system
12 = left hand drive, automatic transmission
zz zzzz = sequence number. 

[koan]

is it true that automatic transmission fluid is not to be used with the power steering??? the reservoir cap says "Nur Automatic Transmission Fluid" im not german but i believe "Nur" in german means ONLY. does ATF ruins the rubber seals? i know seals does wear out in time.

ATF is OK in power steering but is does foam up if it the pump draws air in at any time which of course should not happen. There are fluids designed for power steering that don't foam but I have no experience with them.

i tried putting wd40 and tried turnin the bolts was succesful with it. so im convincing my self that i can do it if i will have more room underneath to pull it out. will see after i make any progress with the leak.

Very lucky, sometimes manifold nuts are difficult to remove. You might find you are removing the stud from the head and not the nut from the stud which is not a problem but separate the nut and stud before refitting and use some anti-seize paste on all the threads to make the job easier next time. The flange surface of the manifold may have warped and need machining. If the manifold is warped and put back on the new gaskets won't last long.

i would like to profusely apologize for not making a new thread with the gearbox.

Don't overdo the apology just that if an expert on power steering comes along and only reads posts on steering he won't look at "73 450SE ignition woes" so you miss out on his wisdom.

again my gratitude is overwhelming that i come across with this medium and special mention to you mr s class and mr koan. thank you.

Warm inner glow but special thanks not required.

koan

[xcaeon]

Heh, just curious but should I start a different thread at this point?

[TJ 450]

I don't know about a different thread, but it certainly went off on a tangent.

I would start by looking at where the ICU gets its signal from. I'm sure someone knowledgeable on D-Jet will chime in shortly, once they make sense of the diversion.

I'm sure the ICU can be tested... it's just a transistor switch applying 12V to the coil, reflecting the signal from the distributor, an amplifier of sorts.

Tim

[xcaeon]

Just a follow up. Replaced the ICU and everything is normal again.

Took apart the control unit, tested the resistors and found them to be bad.