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6.9 Timing chain

Started by Max-NL, 01 October 2017, 06:06 AM

Max-NL

Question, what should be replaced during a timing chain job? I know that with the m116/117 you should replace everything except for the lower guide (and that is just because of the location).
1971 R107 350 SL
1972 W108 280 SEL 3.5
1975 W116 280 S
1975 W116 450 SEL 6.9 #140
1977 W123 230
1992 W124 230 CE
2001 Ducati Monster S4

rumb

The bottom guides really get very little wear as the chain runs pretty straight thru them.  I guess its a matter of age if you want to do them also.

There is a gasket for the tensioner. The tensioner is hydraulic with an anti back out so I dont think they need replacing.

water pump gaskets.  I would use some sealer on the in/out gaskets, but none on the big one on the back of the pump.

fleabay sells a great pin puller for about $20 that is excellent and a must have.

new crank seal for front cover.

buy 2 chain links, so when you lose one of the tiny circlips you have extra!


If you want to borrow my valve adjust tool and buy some .07mm  stainless shims let me know.
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS
'21 E450 Cabrio

Max-NL

Quote
The bottom guides really get very little wear as the chain runs pretty straight thru them.  I guess its a matter of age if you want to do them also.
How about the upper guides, i read somewhere that unlike the m116/117 the 6.9 doesn't really chew into the guides.

Quote
There is a gasket for the tensioner. The tensioner is hydraulic with an anti back out so I dont think they need replacing.
I know how the tensioner is designed. I've had to remove it to replace the passenger side camshaft. I also know that if you don't clean the surface thoroughly of old gasket that you can recreate the Exxon Valdez incident.

Quote
water pump gaskets.  I would use some sealer on the in/out gaskets, but none on the big one on the back of the pump.
Does the waterpump need to be removed to replace the tensioner rail?

Quote
fleabay sells a great pin puller for about $20 that is excellent and a must have.
I'll look around. I've also had some luck using a long bolt, a nut and a socket.

Quote
new crank seal for front cover.
That is somehow the only gasket that isn't seeping, but i'll look into it.

Quote
buy 2 chain links, so when you lose one of the tiny circlips you have extra!
I've thought about that. I've a friend who repairs motorcycles, and he uses a tool to rivet the master links. Can this be used for the chain instead of those pesky circlips which can fall into the engine?

Quote
If you want to borrow my valve adjust tool and buy some .07mm  stainless shims let me know.
I'd appreciate it, but I think that shipping the tool from the USA to the Netherlands and back won't be cheap.
1971 R107 350 SL
1972 W108 280 SEL 3.5
1975 W116 280 S
1975 W116 450 SEL 6.9 #140
1977 W123 230
1992 W124 230 CE
2001 Ducati Monster S4

rumb

Quote from: Max-NL on 01 October 2017, 08:07 AM
Quote
The bottom guides really get very little wear as the chain runs pretty straight thru them.  I guess its a matter of age if you want to do them also.
How about the upper guides, i read somewhere that unlike the m116/117 the 6.9 doesn't really chew into the guides.

the main one for the tensioner for sure. the others will show some wear, but it is partly just because they are old plastic and you dont want to do it twice.

Quote
There is a gasket for the tensioner. The tensioner is hydraulic with an anti back out so I dont think they need replacing.
I know how the tensioner is designed. I've had to remove it to replace the passenger side camshaft. I also know that if you don't clean the surface thoroughly of old gasket that you can recreate the Exxon Valdez incident.

Quote
water pump gaskets.  I would use some sealer on the in/out gaskets, but none on the big one on the back of the pump.
Does the waterpump need to be removed to replace the tensioner rail?

Not sure at moment, but for bottom ones yes, maybe for all, someone else may know

Quote
fleabay sells a great pin puller for about $20 that is excellent and a must have.
I'll look around. I've also had some luck using a long bolt, a nut and a socket.

pin puller is 1000% easier than bolts! it has offsets on one end that are needed to keep parallel. those pins are tight.

Quote
new crank seal for front cover.
That is somehow the only gasket that isn't seeping, but i'll look into it.

again while you are there sort of thing

Quote
buy 2 chain links, so when you lose one of the tiny circlips you have extra!
I've thought about that. I've a friend who repairs motorcycles, and he uses a tool to rivet the master links. Can this be used for the chain instead of those pesky circlips which can fall into the engine?

either style works

Quote
If you want to borrow my valve adjust tool and buy some .07mm  stainless shims let me know.
I'd appreciate it, but I think that shipping the tool from the USA to the Netherlands and back won't be cheap.

tool is like $169 usd.  maybe just shims if you want. I had a bunch made. way cheaper than new MB valve shims - @$28 each.  difference between each size is .07mm thats why I made shims that thickness. usually just takes one per valve if needed.
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS
'21 E450 Cabrio

TJ 450

The main problem with M116/7 vs. M100 is the lack of ratcheting tensioner, so when you start the engine, the chain slaps against the guides and breaks them. It's not so much a problem with the M100, but it isn't immune from failures either.

The lower guides are only worth changing if you are replacing the crank seal... the torque for the crank nut is pretty serious too.

The water pump may need to be removed, I seem to recall some of the pins being consealed.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

3l33ter

My 6.9 has been apart for years but I occasionally get to work on it. Currently the heads are off and where I left off was changing the timing chain rails.

So to help anyone reading, AND to help jog my own memory / motivate me to work on it more ;) here are my notes:

these are NLA (i.e. I guess I'll have to reuse my old ones...):
the flat rail on the RHS of the engine, in the head and above the chain, p/n 1000520116
the flat rail on the LHS of the engine, in the head and between the two runs of the chain, p/n 1000520216

I bought these:
the flat rail on the LHS of the engine, low inside the block, just above the crank and below the SLS gear, p/n 1150520716
the curved rail on the RHS of the engine, low inside the block, just above the crank, p/n 1160502716
the big curved rail for the tensioner, p/n 1000500115 (this one is expensive)
new chain (don't have the p/n handy). I think the new chain is closed. I bought a master link and I'll cut open the new chain and pull it in with the old chain. I'm not worried about using the master link with little E-clips... should I be? I used to read diesel forums (OM617) and those guys were OK with the E-clips.

BTW, RHS means passenger side for my US car.
'75 280S
'77 6.9
'82 300TD

daantjie

Quote from: 3l33ter on 12 November 2017, 01:10 PM
My 6.9 has been apart for years but I occasionally get to work on it. Currently the heads are off and where I left off was changing the timing chain rails.

So to help anyone reading, AND to help jog my own memory / motivate me to work on it more ;) here are my notes:

these are NLA (i.e. I guess I'll have to reuse my old ones...):
the flat rail on the RHS of the engine, in the head and above the chain, p/n 1000520116
the flat rail on the LHS of the engine, in the head and between the two runs of the chain, p/n 1000520216

I bought these:
the flat rail on the LHS of the engine, low inside the block, just above the crank and below the SLS gear, p/n 1150520716
the curved rail on the RHS of the engine, low inside the block, just above the crank, p/n 1160502716
the big curved rail for the tensioner, p/n 1000500115 (this one is expensive)
new chain (don't have the p/n handy). I think the new chain is closed. I bought a master link and I'll cut open the new chain and pull it in with the old chain. I'm not worried about using the master link with little E-clips... should I be? I used to read diesel forums (OM617) and those guys were OK with the E-clips.

BTW, RHS means passenger side for my US car.

When I bought my chain I recall it was open and I used the circlips with master link with no issues.  I searched high and low and the only place that had the 6.9 chain and tensioner was the Classic Centre.  Not cheap I think both were well over $500 USD and this was a while ago.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

rumb

here is everything I got from the dealer earlier this year

000-997-05-98   chain link   1    $3.05   get an extra so when you drop one of  those tiny clip you are ready.
000-997-79-94   timing chain   1    $141.60
004-997-21-46   crank front seal ring   1    $36.60

100-052-09-80   tensioner gasket   1    $8.50
100-201-10-80   water pump large gasket   1    $5.52
100-201-11-80   water pump sm gasket   2    $19.92

100-181-05-59   oil pump chain guide           1    $64.38
100-050-01-15   tensioner tightening lever   1    $310.80
100-052-02-16   sliding rail crankcase left   1    $49.80
115-052-04-16   sliding rail left cyl inner - picture shows right side   1    $51.00   
115-052-07-16   sliding rail left cyl outer   1    $48.60
116-050-27-16   sliding rail crankcase right   1    $6.72
100-052-01-16 sliding rail right cyl inner      1       $12.95

and one of these -  worked extremely well!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Engine-Timing-Chain-Guide-Rail-Pin-Puller-Remover-Extractor-Tool-NEW/331634002761?epid=1258427213&hash=item4d36ed4b49:g:YRQAAOSwJSJXGDvS
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS
'21 E450 Cabrio

TJ 450

I also had no trouble buying the parts as per Rumb's list and the chain was open. If your engine has the alloy straight guide (left hand lower), technically this can be re-used.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

jllgd

#9
Gents,
Looking for the following engine part:
100-052-01-16 Slide Rail/Chain Rail/sliding rail right cyl inner 

Anyone here having a new one as surplus inventory?
Has this item perhaps received a new MB part number?
Is this part specific for the 6.9 engine only?
All leads appreciated. Thanks