Topic: 6.9 starter

[Mattr]

Sounds to me like it's fused in place by grime, hardened grease, etc.  It shouldn't be overly tight.  If it's clean it will just fall off the flange.  Maybe take a rubber mallet to whack a wooden rod on the end of it?

That's about what I was expecting. I'm going to go out today and spray it down with some rust-penetrating WD40, and if that doesn't work I might order a bottle of PB Blaster and give that a shot. A coworker recommended it as being very effective.

Following this one with more interest now that I see it in my future as well...

Matt have you wrestled this beast to the ground yet?

You're more than welcome to use my lift, if you want to haul your car stateside. By the time I'm done with mine, I'll probably have it figured out well enough the two of us could do it in a day.

[3l33ter]

Along with 6.9s, I am a Porsche 944 enthusiast. I couldn't help but notice that the starters look almost identical. If I ever have to take mine out I will see if one of my spare 944 ones will fit. Until then, if anyone wants to take a gamble, 944 starters are readily available - I'd try to find an "early" 944 one, which has the bigger body. The later ones were smaller gear reduction ones.

[TJ 450]

The Porsche 944 flywheel lock tool also fits perfectly too.

Tim

[Punker]

The starter definitely has only 2 fixing screws. I had disassembled the starter recently and put it back on again. See also attached drawing.
Greetings
Björn

[raueda1]

The starter definitely has only 2 fixing screws. I had disassembled the starter recently and put it back on again. See also attached drawing.  Greetings
Björn

Is that supposed to be a 6.9 starter?  If so I'm quite certain that it isn't.  The 6.9 starter (and other M100 engines AFAIK) has 4 mounting bolt holes.  I've got 3 of them altogether and they're all 4 bold DESPITE only using 2 of the bolt holes.  I've wondered why - perhaps there are other differences that provide more torque for starting the bigger engine? 

[Mattr]

The starter definitely has only 2 fixing screws. I had disassembled the starter recently and put it back on again. See also attached drawing.  Greetings
Björn

Is that supposed to be a 6.9 starter?  If so I'm quite certain that it isn't.  The 6.9 starter (and other M100 engines AFAIK) has 4 mounting bolt holes.  I've got 3 of them altogether and they're all 4 bold DESPITE only using 2 of the bolt holes.  I've wondered why - perhaps there are other differences that provide more torque for starting the bigger engine?

My current one only has two bolt holes, and the one I'm replacing it with only has one. The new one uses just the upper bolt, and the post. It comes with a little disclaimer note from Bosch saying that while it may appear visually different, it's still slated to OEM quality. I can get the part number off it, if you'd like.


Also, update on my status: I have to pull the idler arm off. The bolt of the idler arm is rubbing against my starter, and so there's no way I'll be able to remove the starter without pulling it. I believe at least one of my motor mounts is broken, and I can't help but wonder if that might cause the engine to sit slightly lower than it would otherwise... or maybe the fact it's a 6.9 wedged into a 450SE is the reason. Either way, as soon as I've either someone here to help, or a large enough nut splitter, I'm going to remove the idler arm, and work on getting the starter out.

[daantjie]

My starter has the 4x bolt hole pattern but you only use 2 of them in diagonal fashion.

On my 6.9 I was able to drop it down by just removing the steering damper, which is a 1 minute job, so not bad.  However I had to remove the trans filler tube to get enough space to get a socket on the top bolt head, it is super tight up there and those bolts are TIGHT

[TJ 450]

I was under the impression 6.9 starters were NLA as a unit... Two bolt holes in the starter would be for a M117 starter. These may physically fit and work, I'm not sure.

The idler arm clearance issue is probably due to collapsed mounts as you say Mattr. Other 116s do use a different drag link and tie rods, this could also be a factor although I wouldn't have thought the m100 would fit without this being modified beforehand.

Tim

[s class]

6.9 has a longer drag link and correspondingly shorter tie rods than the other 116s.  The steering box pitman arm and idler arms have different geometry too.  I forget all the details but I seem to recall that the 6.9 steering box mounting hole locations differ from those of the other cars as well.  That would imply that the idler arm mount is different too.

[Mattr]

Today's update: I realized that I couldn't get the starter out without removing the idler arm, and the idler arm wouldn't come out without the cross member removed, so we dropped the cross member.

I was mistaken, before: my new starter has 3 bolt holes. I just thought that one of them was a post, but it was actually a bolt coming through from the 'back' side that I didn't see initially.


Only bolt left blocking me on the starter is the upper bolt. I can get my crow's foot onto it, but the clearance is so tight, I can't actually get any of my adapters onto the crow's foot. I need to buy a compact flex-joint for it, and maybe a 3/8ths socket wrench as well, and see if that will let me reach it.

(oh, if anyone is really curious: I'm posting what I'm doing to Instagram under 'guildhallgarage' because I'm really damn bored lately. It's pretty terrible photos, but hey, you're probably bored too.)

[revilla]

Hello there,

Been there. The space for the upper bolt is extremely tight and we’re blind when trying to insert the socket.

One thing that worked for me the last few times I removed the starters was to build an extension (about 1 meter long with a flex-joint at the tip) and introduce it from behind parallel to the transmission tunnel. Then, although still tight space, actuate the ratchet from the opposite tip where we have more leverage.  2 people is preferable, 1 introducing/holding the socket in place and the other turning the ratchet. Certainly a less frustrating approach to this challenge.

Good luck.

R

[Mattr]

Back to this. Starter is FINALLY out. Next problem? I need to now re-install it. Which brings about a problem: I've no idea where the largest cable (12v main from the battery, I believe) is supposed to connect. The two smallest ones are obvious, the next up someone explained to me where it goes, but they never replied when I asked where the main power connects... and my other 6.9 is currently away getting the interior replaced, so I can't look at it as a frame of reference. Any chance someone can explain it? Ideally with pictures and/or descriptions designed for an idiot?

[TJ 450]

The hot cable goes on the big M8 post on the solenoid (next to the two screw terminals).

Tim

[Mattr]

The hot cable goes on the big M8 post on the solenoid (next to the two screw terminals).

Tim

Isn't that where the larger of these three cables goes? Do both connections go onto that post?

[raueda1]

The hot cable goes on the big M8 post on the solenoid (next to the two screw terminals).

Tim

Isn't that where the larger of these three cables goes? Do both connections go onto that post?

I recently went through this.  But my memory is imperfect so cross check.  Anyway, not sure what you mean by "both."  The solenoid has 3 terminals: large, medium and small.   Those ring terminals are connected accordingly.  The large cable goes back to the terminal block under the battery where it is connected to the battery.  Check that.  if you have 2 of the large rings on the starter cable assembly then I'm almost certain that one of them goes back either to the battery or the terminal block.  See this thread too. https://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/4-terminal-electrical-block-under-batter-tray/msg146263/#msg146263.  I've encountered inconsistencies in how these cars are wired.  Post what you find and good luck.  Cheers,