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6.9 engine rebuild with pics

Started by nathan, 16 July 2017, 10:32 AM

s class

Manufacturers like Febi seem to be a bit variable.  Some of their stuff is really good, some of it seems to be less so. 

I'm going to have to side with UTn here.  As time passes, I become more and more inclined to only use dealer-supplied parts.  As I repair cars to make a living, it just doesn't make sense to fit cheaper parts (even if the saving is passed on to the customer), and carry the risk of a comeback. 

The most expensive overhead in business is comebacks.  There is the direct cost of bearing the repeat labour, plus the indirect costs of loss of reputation, loss of income due to moving out paying projects to make way for the comeback etc. 

For my own cars, the projects currently on the go are a 126 500SEL, one of the 6.9's and my euro 500SL 107.  In these cases, I am swallowing really hard and fitting only OEM stuff.  The price difference between OEM 116 lower control arm bushing kits and Meyle 116 bushing kits for example, is a bit hard to swallow, but its such a huge job to fit these parts, I only want to be doing it once. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

ptashek

It makes sense in a business setting s class. But out of interest - what was the percentage of comebacks between OEM and 3rd party, before you decided to not bother with 3rd party parts at all?

I have a much worse experience with the quality of OEM parts, than 3rd party. Just from yesterday: valve cover breather hose on my car  is already cracking, barely 15k miles after installation. And the  top injector holder seals are disintegrating after just 4k. Meanwhile none of the 3rd party parts have had any issues in that time.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

Squiggle Dog

Interesting topic. I can understand that in some cases genuine Mercedes and OEM might be the exact same part with the star ground off. But, I have also heard that by law they cannot use the same rubber formulation as the ones they provide to Mercedes, so for better or worse, the rubber composition may be different (possibly even a different shore hardness). Another thing to consider, is that an aftermarket brand might have used a genuine Mercedes part to cast a mold, so you end up with an exact copy of the original, only with whatever grade of rubber (possibly very inferior) they feel is suitable and then grind off the star for obvious reasons.

In short, having a part that looks identical to the genuine article, but with the star ground off, may or may not actually be identical. You take your chances and have to use your judgment. It helps if you or others have a good track record with the brand. Lemforder always seems to be top notch, while Febi can vary and URO and Meyle seem to be consistently junk.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! [url="https://challenge22.com/"]https://challenge22.com/[/url]

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

daantjie

I have also never had issues with Lemforder, always fits perfectly and top notch quality.  Meyle is hit and miss, and agree that Febi seems to be middle of the road for the most part.  Some Febi parts are very nice quality and others so-so.  For the most part I cannot justify dropping 10x the price on an original Benz part.  But I totally get that if you are working on a customer's car, it might be very good insurance to rule this out in case of a come back.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

Peter

Hi Nathan, may I ask what you paid for the hood deflectors as I was chasing them last year and gave up due to the price and picked the one I needed from the wreckers.

nathan

Hi Peter,

do you mean the white plastic bits on the front of the engine bay cross member? They were 45 USD each. a bit silly! mine are currently ok but I don't want the area painted around them, I want them off, and the area painted under them.  But I'm sure they will crack when the come off so I ordered new ones.

re the parts, I'm buying original except for some parts my mechanic ordered. he ordered some bits from niemoller including the flex discs.  My mechanics word is good enough for me and he has worked on these cars longer than anyone here.  I'm not so precious I could pick up on a little wobble if they indeed induce it. as said, our cars are 40 year old relics and the collective bunch of used and worn parts will quite easily mask this. further, driving only 2000km/year and hitting an alrighty max speed of probably 120kmh if lucky, ill probably be ok!

More parts to come...
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

Squiggle Dog

Haha, the plastic hood deflectors! I paid the big bucks for a couple of those. One of them only lasted a week before breaking. >:( That'll teach me to spend so much on a little item. The problem is my car was in a collision that buckled the radiator support and shifted it to the left about an inch and so the hood will never line up right until the radiator support gets replaced and the whole front end pulled back where it belongs.  So, the striker just hits the edge of the deflector and breaks it.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! [url="https://challenge22.com/"]https://challenge22.com/[/url]

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

UTn_boy

Quote from: TJ 450 on 21 July 2017, 10:11 AM
Actually, they are the exact same part as the Genuine unit in this case, ZF/Lemforder are one of the manufacturers of the Mercedes branded parts and the Mercedes markings are ground off after manufacturing. This is a fact, and it applies to quite a few parts from different manufacturers.

Tim

Tim, you're horribly mistaken.....They are not the exact same part.  Lemforder would be infringing upon copyright and patents laws if they sold the exact same part. Another good example are brake pads.....Mercedes has Texstar make them, and Texstar also sells brake pads......but they're not made of the same material. The physical attributes cannot be compromised for fitment reasons, so part composition has to be changed.  In the case of flex discs and brake pads, the material they're made out of is what's different, and as Sqiggledog mentioned, aftermarket companies may own the mold, and will produce an exact replica of the part, but they are most certainly not the same part that Mercedes had/has made.  Do some more research on this and you'll see what we're all talking about. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

ptashek

Quote from: UTn_boy on 22 July 2017, 08:37 AMDo some more research on this and you'll see what we're all talking about.

Can you quote your sources?

As for the flex discs for example, yes it's a patented solution.
Daimler was granted the patent in the US in 1976, much earlier in Europe; here's a link to that document, including drawings (USPTO website).

Note, that they have a patent on a specific claim, which does not specify in detail the materials to be used other than "rubber" etc.
If 3rd parties are allowed to replicate this exact functional design, it must be done under license from Daimler. I can't imagine how else they'd get away with it.
And if they're doing it under license, then they'd be doing it "as original" - bar the OEM logo.

Anyway, we've hijacked this thread far enough.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

floyd111

Quote from: daantjie on 21 July 2017, 04:47 PM
I have also never had issues with Lemforder, always fits perfectly and top notch quality.  Meyle is hit and miss, and agree that Febi seems to be middle of the road for the most part.  Some Febi parts are very nice quality and others so-so.  For the most part I cannot justify dropping 10x the price on an original Benz part.  But I totally get that if you are working on a customer's car, it might be very good insurance to rule this out in case of a come back.

The problem with both Meyle and Febi is that the are always changing suppliers in China. A boot seal can be great in January, terrible in February and so-so in March. I know this from my short career as Febi-Meyle distributor in Taiwan. Dropped the whole idea because of this issue and another few, like supply delays, anally inclined brass/management and pretty poor service

nathan

Ha, cheers PT. I was thinking that very thing - but enjoy listening to the experts! Anyway, no more deliveries due until early next week I imagine.
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

nathan

Hi Max - the exhaust manifold bolts as requested earlier in the thread. arrived today.  304 017 008 028 $2.40 each!
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

nathan

the dry sump oil dipstick rubber. I can tell you this is not the same as the original and is much smaller. ill be reusing my original which is a much larger and better sitting rubber
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

nathan

expansion collant tank and lines (and clip!)
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

nathan

exhaust rubbers
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te