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450SEL - Help, i need somebody...

Started by SELfor50, 20 April 2007, 01:59 AM

SELfor50

G'day everyone,

i found this site cause the other day i was searching the web for 'for sale' 6.9's.  and came accross Michel who told me to jump on here and introduce myself.  So... here i am.  Name's Cam - please to meet ya's.

I recently bought a 450SEL (which i thought was a 6.9 cause of the badge) for $300!  The interior is tip-top and the engine only had 146,000km's on it.  (Now 148k)
I've since had a major engine/transmission service, new shocks, new leads, new rims (17x8 Factory Merc rims)...  and my mechanic says for the age the car is in top nick. - only thing is there's a clicking noise on the left side at the back of the engine, he said it doesn't sound like a timing chain, too far back and it doesn't sound like the lifters.  He guessed it might be a certain pin of some sort but didn't wanna confirm that either cause he's not done too much work on merc's.
I know it's general info, but has anyone experience this clicking noise before?

Also the Dizzy cap main lead connector point has cracked and i need to get a new lid for the dizzy cap - can anyone point me in the direction of one?

Why only $300...  well the paint is REALLY average!  it's been sitting on a property in a bungendore paddock doing nothing for the past 10months and the dry weather has wrecked the paint. - i'm currently thinking bout re-spraying it myself as a mate didn't do too bad a job on his e28 - 528i bmw.

Final question for y'all - since some peanut who previously owned this 450SEL has put the 6.9 badge on it, and it's not a 6.9.  What would be the best way to spend $$$ to get a good lift in performance.  so it doesn't look too much like i'm driving a fake??  Or should i just rip off the 6.9 badge? (or buy one?)

Any assistance would be much appreciated!!

Cheers,
Cam.

pal

Hi

I had a tapping sound coming from my 350SEL and after going through a list of possibilities it turned out to be a cracked exhaust manifold. It was quite cheap to fix but the engine had to be lifted out to access the manifold bolts.

The clicking could easily be all sorts of other stuff. Does it stop when you rev or does it just get louder?

Cheers
Pal

WGB

High Cam and welcome,

Here are some quick idle thoughts

I didn't catch what year your 450 is- is it pre 1976 electronic injection with manual adjustment on the tappets or post 1976 with mechanical K-Jet and hydraulic lifters.

Clicking noise
-Lifter needing adjustment if pre 76 or sticking hydraulic tappet if post 76 - I would suggest driving it carefully with fresh oil and see what happens, might sort itself out.
- ?Dry cam lobe - take off camcovers and check plastic oil line connectors while checking tappet clearance.
- ?Exhaust manifold leak - separate gaskets for each port and they are metallic so a torque up may change something

At that Mileage I would suspect the timing chain and tensioner but this would normally only make any noise at all on startup.

6.9 badge - just toss it away and enjoy a really good 4.5 litre V8.

Bill

WGB

Quote from: pal on 20 April 2007, 02:20 AM
Hi

I had a tapping sound coming from my 350SEL and after going through a list of possibilities it turned out to be a cracked exhaust manifold. It was quite cheap to fix but the engine had to be lifted out to access the manifold bolts.

The clicking could easily be all sorts of other stuff. Does it stop when you rev or does it just get louder?

Cheers
Pal

I am sure that the manifolds are removable in-situ and have done this myself with a good tool set and bruised knuckles.

Bill

torana68

#4
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, that car.......The guy told you it wan't a 6.9 I hope , he told me anyway. Its a European import , and it was needing timing chain when I spoke to the last owner when it was for sale. You need to change the chain and all the slides asap, (also the little plastic things on the cam oiler tubes) if you don't you could be the owner of a expensive pile of.........
Roger

the 6.9 badge resulted in a previous owner getting rippped off as they thought it was a 6.9 as well, hence the low mileage (if its correct) as they shedded it as it was "collectable" when they found out it wasn't a 6.9 they floged it.........

Andrew280SEL

Hi Cam and welcome to this forum for the w116 faithfuls!

I agree with torana68, if its the timing chain its a good idea to get it fixed.
If those things go on the 450, it'll take many other components.... :o
believe me i know! :)
'79 280SEL- 560,000 Kms
'73 350SE- getting an AMG facelift
'79 450SEL 6.9

pal

Bill,

Yer I did have a go at that but after struggling for a day with stuck bolts and lots of plus gas I gave up. It was easy once the lump was out. Funny you mention tools too because the set I have (el cheapo) is a pain to work with - not enough teeth on the socket spanner. I just invested in a decent torque wrench and it makes all the difference.

Cheers
Pal

Quote from: WGB on 20 April 2007, 02:29 AM
Quote from: pal on 20 April 2007, 02:20 AM
Hi

I had a tapping sound coming from my 350SEL and after going through a list of possibilities it turned out to be a cracked exhaust manifold. It was quite cheap to fix but the engine had to be lifted out to access the manifold bolts.

The clicking could easily be all sorts of other stuff. Does it stop when you rev or does it just get louder?

Cheers
Pal

I am sure that the manifolds are removable in-situ and have done this myself with a good tool set and bruised knuckles.

Bill

WGB

The bolts under the manifolds are at very difficult angles - patience, strength, good sockets (I use Kingchrome with their universal joints and wobble joint extensions - plus I have a good set of offset sockets).

Bill


Des

Hey Cam
Michel did well to steer you into our forum, you will not find a more informative, knowledgeable and down right funny ole chaps who love their cars.

We would love to see some pictures of your car.

even a dogs breakfast 6.9 would set you back about $2-3k AU


Tomi

I had a clicking noise from the back. it was a stuck valve lifter. quite easy to diagnose based on the click frequency and comparing it to the cam rotation speed. with a stetoscope you find the exact location too. The lifters do get stuck in the far back mostly.
Some friends have had good experiences with tking the lifters out, compressing the old oil out (which never changes) and soaking them in diesel fuel for a day or so. I am planning on that.
If you dont know about the chain or the oil tube plsatic bits, do them right away.
cheers.

oscar

I remember seeing a 450sel 4.5l but 6.9 badged car for sale in Tassie a long time ago.  I wonder if it's the same one.

Cam, welcome.

I can't add anything else except to say, if you're unsure of what to do or how to do it, talk to MBSpares http://www.mbspares.com.au/default.asp about getting the problem/s fixed . They're in Canberra (fyshwick) and will know what to do and diagnose the problem.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

Danny Berry


SELfor50


Quote from: WGB on 20 April 2007, 02:27 AM


At that Mileage I would suspect the timing chain and tensioner but this would normally only make any noise at all on startup.

6.9 badge - just toss it away and enjoy a really good 4.5 litre V8.

Bill

Cheers mate,  it does actually make a 'chainy' sounding noise occasionally at startup but not all the time.  But it sounds exactly like a chain before it tightens up and doesn't continue once idleing.

I agree, when i get it sprayed i'll be removing the badge and it will go to a good home.

Quote from: torana68 on 20 April 2007, 02:32 AM
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, that car.......The guy told you it wan't a 6.9 I hope , he told me anyway. Its a European import , and it was needing timing chain when I spoke to the last owner when it was for sale. You need to change the chain and all the slides asap, (also the little plastic things on the cam oiler tubes) if you don't you could be the owner of a expensive pile of.........
Roger

the 6.9 badge resulted in a previous owner getting rippped off as they thought it was a 6.9 as well, hence the low mileage (if its correct) as they shedded it as it was "collectable" when they found out it wasn't a 6.9 they floged it.........

Alright, this confirms it.  My step brother went out and picked it up - the fella did say that it wasn't a 6.9 and that the previous owners didn't drive it cause they thought it was.  Hence the low km's.
After speaking to my step brother again yesterday he did say that the guy mentioned something bout a chain but didn't take notice cause it was running fine.
Now, to avoid being the owner of an expensive pile of ....  how do i go about replacing the timing chain and  slides for best $$$.  I've been quoted bout 1K from MB...is there any cheaper way?  Also if i'm gonna replace the timing chain and guides etc..what else should i do while i've got it in pieces?

I gotta say thanks to everyone for such a quick response and precise guidance!!!  it's very much appreciated!

WGB

Quote from: SELfor50 on 21 April 2007, 07:21 PM


Cheers mate,  it does actually make a 'chainy' sounding noise occasionally at startup but not all the time.  But it sounds exactly like a chain before it tightens up and doesn't continue once idleing.



Be careful with that chain as it's at startup that it lets go. The M117 does not have an internal ratchet system and when parked it can release. It only pumps up again with oil pressure and until it tensions the chain it can do untold damage by smashing brittle sliders and jumping cam sprockets - valves meet pistons etc.

A quick fix is just to change the tensioner but it needs a full service by the sounds of things.

It was your story that reminded me to formally post my pictures of a timing chain service a couple of days ago.

Please go to M-B Spares and get a quote if you want the car to last - it actually sounds like a good car in need of a carer.

Bill

John Hubertz

Congrats!

Personally, for modern pleasure driving and general use a 6.9 is just too big a financial headache anyway due to the cost of spares.

I had a 6.9, but sold it and purchased a clean 4.5 liter car and could not be happier.

For the price of a single repair of that 6.9 engine or suspension I now own an entire, beautiful car.  Mine smoothly will rocket to 100 mph and still has "legs" to accelerate...  anybody who drives a 30 year old car routinely faster than that must have a special "ball pocket" built into his car's seat - (or is clinically insane, or both)

I had a clicking 420SEL, one of my cam lobes was "missing"....  cams are cheap (used) but this one wasn't too bad so I resmoothed it with a dremel tool "in situ" and then changed to the proper oil.  MB cams will do this if you run old or thin oil.
John Hubertz
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
(Hunter S. Thompson) 

1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
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