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450SEL developments

Started by TJ 450, 01 December 2009, 08:02 AM

TJ 450

They are Euro pistons, although there may be several versions. The low compression pistons have a much deeper recess.

I concur with your impression of the block and pistons... they look nice so far. I'm just in the process of removing the other head.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Big_Richard

m117 valves are cheap enough brand new ;)

The bottom end certainly does look nice - i suspect all is not lost.

nathan

im looking at one of your pics and laughing, you do know you cant plug the m117 into a computer dont you? ;)
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

SELfor50

Fuk me... them heads are related to paris hilton! haha..

Those coolant channels are pretty shocking.

What is the cost of new valves?


What's the deal with the pistons??  I've never actually seen them before with the recess-ness in them.
So, all euro motors have the pistons with the cutouts?


TJ, you know you wanna ditch that SLS rubbish..  Much better ride, more sporty.  ;)


TJ 450

Quote from: SELfor50 on 02 December 2009, 09:31 PM
... them heads are related to paris hilton! haha.
Your not wrong there haha!

I could be wrong, but I don't recall there being flat-top pistons for the M117... I'm happy to be proven wrong though.  8)

That also raises the question of whether there were even flat top pistons in the M100.985. Certainly 6.3s had them.

With the Bilstein HDs, I reckon I want a set on the W126, but only after I have the car back on the road.

I'm undecided on removing the SLS from the 450, I'd rather keep that all original, I think.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

WGB

I would leave your bottom end well alone unless you have a major oil leak or oil pressure problem.

I think you will find new valves as required, guides and seals will work wonders.



Here is a copy of all piston specs for M116/7 motors worldwide for the W116 model car - all the M117.985 and 986 motors have cavities of varying depths.

Bill

TJ 450

Thanks for that info, Bill. It clears up a few ambiguities regarding the pistons.

I decided that it was best to remove the heads with the engine in-situ, that way there's little chance of me impulsively deciding to do the lot.  ;)

Everything is off except for the valve/rocker shims. I will complete the removal tomorrow evening.

The plan is to do the works on these heads, providing they're not like Swiss Cheese, as per Bill's post.







Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

s class

Gee I wish I still had energy like you.  That's quite some work to get that far. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

TJ 450

Yes, I certainly like to get stuck into things.  8)

I removed the heads from the engine this evening...


The bores are consistent... a bit more glaze than the Euro, but still minimal wear...


Certainly not the best sight, but these heads are a bit of an improvement on the others. However, I'll probably need to locate another pair, without that level of corrosion. ;)



Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

s class

Its not easy to see in that photo, but are you sure that head is so bad?  you might be surprised, and find it will clean up with a skimming. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

TJ 450

I reckon it will clean up nicely, there will just be a few depressions. They correspond with the holes in the head gaskets though.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Big_Richard

cough cough ahem, remove the engine, cough cough

TJ 450

I think cleaning the piston tops will suffice for now, as I already have one engine in pieces. ;)
I would rather invest the time and money into ensuring the top end is 100%.

I do like the idea of Euro pistons though. 8)

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

TJ 450

Carrying on with the work, I have done a preliminary cleanup of the surfaces and pulled down one of the heads. Valve stem seals were rock hard, like brittle plastic, and the exhaust valves appear to have a good 0.5mm of side-to-side movement (guesstimate). This was with the "wiggle test". ;) The wetness on the valves is as removed... it is oil.

All the seats are excellent and the valves appear to be original and should clean up nicely. And yes, I haven't bothered removing the spark plugs just yet.

Regarding the corrosion, there are localised pockets corresponding to the cutouts in the gaskets. Should they puncture through, it is part of the water jacket behind anyway. My only concern is encroachment towards the combustion chambers, if this continues.









Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Big_Richard

I assisted TJ pull apart his spare euro 4.5 crankcase today, aside from an atrocious cooling system, mechanically it was almost flawless, it appears it had alot of money spent on it in the mid 90's. All of the pistons still have the original machining marks from initial manufacture and with some cleaning will look like they were just pulled out of the box.

TJ's engine on the other hand, has enough clearance around each piston in its bore to have an almost full uninterrupted view of the top compression ring in each cylinder, and its unacceptably large 2mm end gaps. No wonder as much gas comes out the oil cap, as there does out the exhaust ;)

I look forward to TJ's final decision on the matter  8)