Author Topic: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?  (Read 2568 times)

13B

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Hi people,

Are all D-jets created equal? (Will all D-jets have kettering (points) ignition and all K-Jets have transitorised (electronic) ignition?)

Or will some D-jets have electronic ignition? 

Are the points ignitions when set up right any good??

Ian.
450SEL 6.9 #5440 = V MB 690 , 450SE # 43094 = 02010 H , 190E/turbo # 31548 = AOH 68K

alabbasi

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #1 on: 26 December 2007, 02:14 PM »
Are the points ignitions when set up right any good?

yes, the points set up on me d-jet 108 is flawless.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

oscar

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #2 on: 26 December 2007, 03:24 PM »
The only difference with d-jet systems is some changes with the distributor whereby the trigger points (not the breaker points) come with pigtail permanently attached and some with pigtail able to be unplugged at the dizzy end.  Sometimes the distributors have a red/brown cap compared to a black cap.  Also some will still have a condenser above the base plate which can be removed when getting new breaker points which have a shielded wire.  If you get new points, I think only the new type are available anyway with black and white stripes on the wire.  Lastly, some d-jet dizzys have single can advance units, others have dual can units with retard and for some reason I can't workout, some advance units are placed above the 3 o'clock position compared to below the 3 o'clock position.  See pics - http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/holden-6-distributor-cap/0/

(Will all D-jets have kettering (points) ignition and all K-Jets have transitorised (electronic) ignition?)

NB: All petrol w116's, including carbied 280S, have transistorised ignition, it's just some are breaker controlled and others are breakerless.   Whilst I can't find in the manuals a sentence to say breakerless control of the switchgear was employed the same time as k-jet, it does seem to coincide. ie sometime in 1976.


Are the points ignitions when set up right any good?
yes, the points set up on me d-jet 108 is flawless.

I think so too.  Because the breaker points don't carry the spark, they just signal the switchgear, you don't get pitting and wear on the contacts.  The rubbing block will wear down long before the the contacts deteriorate.  The only issue you may have is the contacts may become dirty overtime if the lower dizzy O ring is worn. 
1973 350SE, my first & fave

13B

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #3 on: 26 December 2007, 03:53 PM »
So is there a smaller voltage crossing the points on a D-jet than on say they points of a Datsun 120Y ignition?  (Conventional ignition has 12V crossing the points but at a fairly high amperage hence the requirement for a condensor so the points don't get burned away to nothing in a few hundred km.)

My main experience with points has been on the RX2 - RX5 rotary engines which when in good condition (new points, condensors, leads, plugs and good strong coils) the setup makes as much power as the electronic ignition (RX7s had them and we'd put those distributors in early model cars to eliminate points).  The ability of points to generate a consistently large spark across the entire rev range was a problem as the engines revved to 8500 but the spark intensity dropped off after 6000rpm and points would bounce at 8000+

But the spark would be pretty strong up to 6000rpm

I guess this isn't a problem in a V8 who's max rpm is around 6000.

I.

450SEL 6.9 #5440 = V MB 690 , 450SE # 43094 = 02010 H , 190E/turbo # 31548 = AOH 68K

oscar

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #4 on: 26 December 2007, 04:28 PM »
Yeah, can't say I've had much experience with getting the points to bounce.  I haven't even revved hard enough for the rev limiter to kick in and my rotor is for a 450 with a lower redline then a 350's. ::) 

But yes, the current through the point's contacts would be low.  I can't see so far any mention of what values for V or I through the points are but the blue ignition coils are supposed to be high output with a winding ratio of 1:185 turns compared to 1:100 on other heavy duty coils.  Good leads, plugs and correct plug gaps and I can't imagine spark strength should be an issue.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

450SEL69

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #5 on: 28 December 2007, 03:50 PM »
So is there a smaller voltage crossing the points on a D-jet than on say they points of a Datsun 120Y ignition?  (Conventional ignition has 12V crossing the points but at a fairly high amperage hence the requirement for a condensor so the points don't get burned away to nothing in a few hundred km.)

My main experience with points has been on the RX2 - RX5 rotary engines which when in good condition (new points, condensors, leads, plugs and good strong coils) the setup makes as much power as the electronic ignition (RX7s had them and we'd put those distributors in early model cars to eliminate points).  The ability of points to generate a consistently large spark across the entire rev range was a problem as the engines revved to 8500 but the spark intensity dropped off after 6000rpm and points would bounce at 8000+

But the spark would be pretty strong up to 6000rpm

I guess this isn't a problem in a V8 who's max rpm is around 6000.

I.



what are you trying to do?

AMG 450SEL 6.9

13B

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #6 on: 28 December 2007, 04:15 PM »
Club level motorsports.
450SEL 6.9 #5440 = V MB 690 , 450SE # 43094 = 02010 H , 190E/turbo # 31548 = AOH 68K

Des

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #7 on: 29 December 2007, 02:27 AM »
Club level motorsports.

what would you be up against Ian?

1977 W123 230 
1977 W116 280S *new*
1980 W123 250
VW Beetle "Oval Window"
VW Golf Mk1
Volvo 240GL
Volvo 740GLE

13B

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #8 on: 29 December 2007, 03:20 AM »
Mainly:

Commodore V8s
Toranas
Mazda RX3s and RX7s
Datsun 1600s
Ford Escorts
Jaguar XJs
various boring but fast turbo cars... Nissan Sylvias, Lancer Evos, WRXs, that sort of thing.

Here is me overtaking a Lancer Evo at Winton in Feb '07 (well, I overtook him once we hit the straight bit... )


450SEL 6.9 #5440 = V MB 690 , 450SE # 43094 = 02010 H , 190E/turbo # 31548 = AOH 68K

SELfor50

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Re: 450 D-Jet 1975 - will it have points or transistor ignition?
« Reply #9 on: 29 December 2007, 04:31 AM »
I'm getting wet looking at that track....... and the thought of overtaking wheelie bins on long straights.....   ;D

Can't wait.

So........... how's whitey??
"Man who come first, wins race." -Unknown

-= 1978 - 450 SEL [Euro] =-  Locked
-= 1976 - 450 SE 6.9 #2 =-  New Heart