450

[Hemersam]

I currently have a '78 280SE; it isn't slow, but on the other hand, it's no rocket. Question: I'm considering a nice '78 450SEL and wondering how fast this car would be and if it requires premium gasoline? Thank you for whatever insight you can share.
Hemersam

[WGB]

See comment on fuel in other post.

If you want a rocket consider a 6.9.

Bill

[albe]

Or you could do what I am doing swap in a LS1 will feel like a new car and fuel use will be cut down .

[nathan]

as a man thats stuck too many cylinders into engine bays they shouldnt have been placed,
ive got a five'er your consumption is not going to be pretty! 

[Big_Richard]

.

[Hemersam]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I need to rethink this deal since there is also a nice-looking '80 300SD for sale hereabouts. I don't need a "rocket," but I am a bit tired of the SNAIL I currently drive, an '85 190D auto 2.0 ltr. What kind of mileage, honestly, could I expect from the SD, considering I'm 76 years old and on the "cautious side" as a driver? Thanks.
Hemersam

[nathan]

Hemersam,
buy what you are happy with. i can tell you the 450 is a quicker car. not blistering by modern standards. what makes it feel quick though is the old V8 working. i got a mate to buy a low km 450, and the noise that made, you would have thought you were going pretty darn quick. i think the the 0-60mph was still only like 9.5 seconds or something though!
good luck
nathan

[jbrasile]

Hemersam,

The 300SD has about the same performance as your 280SE, maybe even a tad quicker from 0-60 and you can expect around 25mpg city / 27 highway, a lot better than the 280. The 450SEL is quicker of course but it also uses a bit more fuel, you will not get more than 14-15 city and 17-18 highway out of a 78, 1980's are better since they have an O2 sensor but they are also the least powerful of all 450's with only 160hp, great torque though...

A 280SE will feel smoother than the 300SD because it doesn't have any turbo lag to deal with and its transmission starts in 2nd, which avoids the "hard" 1-2 shift (116's are a lot better that 123's and 126's in that respect)

All in all since US 280's only have 137-141 hp, a 450 offers a better compromise between, performance, balance and fuel consumption but if you've had your car for a while and feel good about its condition, etc... I am not sure moving into a 450 would make you that much happier, unless of course it's a 6.9, then you're in another league altogether...

Tks,

Joe

[oversize]

Or you could do what I am doing swap in a LS1 will feel like a new car and fuel use will be cut down .

This is an enthusiasts forum - driving around a shell with an alien drivetrain, wheels and non original interior can't really be considered being an enthusiast. An Enthusiast would appreciate the car for what it was - not try to make it something else completely different from original.

There are plenty of other cars to choose from if you want it to feel like a "new car" and use "less fuel"

Just my 2c.

That's a little harsh, but I know what you're saying.  I think the LS1 is a great project and I'll support anyone that can keep a W116 away from the crusher.  Personally I'd prefer a MB engine, but that's just me.  I'm all for tasteful personalisation of a vehicle because that's what make each one unique.  I like to see differences and that's why I like car shows so much.  I'll leave the concourse shows for someone else because I don't find them as exciting...

[albe]

Sorry this is off topic ,but thanks oversize and I have to say that cut me at bit . Just love my 116 and just want it my way. Any way it gets looks more looks now and like's then it did stock .Just my two cents worth

[nathan]

without googling any stats, i cant believe that Joe.
no way in hell is a 300sd as quick as even a smog strangled US 280 (i know ill obviously be proven wrong now ive made this comment!!)
i look forward to seeing some figures from someone on 0-100kmh/60mph times for US models (that would take 30 seconds of my time to look up!)
how many hp did the 300sd have, 70hp or something?

[TJ 450]

As I understand it, the 300SD Turbo Diesel is actually fairly responsive, remembering that the US gas engined cars were equipped with catalytic converters among the other pollution controls.

Engine output of the SD though is < 100kW, but similar torque figures to the US 280SE... As to how this translates? I'm sure Joe's response sums it up through experience.

Tim

[jbrasile]

nathan,

The 300SD has 110hp and 168ft/lbs of torque at a low 2400rpm vs 137/141hp and 142ft/lbs at 4600rpm for a smog equipped 280SE. As we all know torque is king when we are talking acceleration, the test figures from magazine articles I was able to locate are:

300SD - 0-60 - 12.7sec
280SE - 0-60 - 12.5sec

Yes the 280SE when new was  a fraction of a sec faster but I do remember reading a test from Car and Driver where they compared both cars and the SD was quicker than the 280SE.

As you can see the good old oil burner is no slouch and with a 110mph top speed it certainly changed the perception we had with regards to diesel powered cars.

Tks,

Joe

[Tony66_au]

Nathan I reckon youd be surprised with the Hairdried oil burners mate...

I drove a 300TD (123) from Albury to Yarra Glen for a mate not too long ago and it didnt feel like a diesel at all.

Infact we played leapfrog a few times with his 3lt Nissan turbo diesel and there wasnt much difference in the 2 apart from the Benz being more comfy.

Shame theres not many Turbo oil burners in Oz....

[nathan]

thanks JB,
but i count that as a victory of sorts!!  still, im surprised, much quicker than i thought.
tony, where did the turbo 123 wagen come from?  we had a 123 280te when i was a kid, and our friends a 300td (non turbo). this was THE second slowest vehicle i have evern been in. the slowest was our 300GD, which earned an STT turbo, before the m110 280, and now the m117 500! id be interested to drive in one of these turbo versions for sure.
regards
nathan