350SE into w114

[blakamin]

Hi, I'm new here and I realise that some people are going to want to kill me...
But I have just bought a rusty w116 350se for its engine (the body is going to a mate for resto so don't murder me yet)
Does anyone know if the V8 will fit in a w114 230.6 engine bay?
Any idea of what problems I may have?



btw, I bought the w114 because it's the same age as me...

a quick pic (if that's alright)


I know, not everyones cup of tea...

[Brian Crump]

Welcome to the forum.
No we won't kill you!! In fact we can be very nice people once you get to know us. You know, the sort who you would invite for  barbie.....
Ignore the NZ jokes too - or better still, hit us with some Oz ones.
I have no idea about the project but someone here will give you their thoughts...
I would imagine that the 114 will need some work to make it take the extra torque.
Regards,
BC

[blakamin]

Cheers for the quick reply... No need for kiwi jokes, I was born in Melbourne and only moved to NZ 5 years ago!
btw, MERC 71 actually has a 250 m114 from the factory (don't know why tho)

[Andrew280SEL]

hey welcome! 

No, no we won't...KILL you, maybe a little do over with the knuckle dusters....KIDDING! 

(yes, i'm one of the sarcastic A*holes here....)

It looks like another interesting conversion, and should really give the old girl a totally new and different life with a V8 under the bonnet, but as BC said it may need some strengthening for the torque.

Good luck with it 

[oscar]

I haven't got the answer either, but don't feel bad about breaking a rusty 350 for the motor.  When my mechanic first saw my 350, he was interested in buying it for the sole purpose of putting the engine into a boat.  Yeah, great idea so  long as it's not my 350.  If he gets hold of a rust bucket 350, then he's got my blessing.

Unless someone knows of a similar transplant, you may be in the best position yourself to do some measurements.  You may have seen this already, but mercules is doing a Ford engine into a W116 body http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/engine-conversion/0/. I see something like that and think anything's possible so long as you can close the bonnet afterwards.  The 350's a small V8 and the air filter doesn't protrude too far so you might be in luck as far as that clearance is concerned.  I really can't comment on much else.  Just make sure you grab all the fuel injection and ignition parts out of the 350 before you throw the rest out.

[blakamin]

Cheers guys,
Trust me, nothing will be getting thrown out.
My w115 (220D) that's behind MERC 71 in the photo is just about all stripped now and will be getting cut up into panels with a concrete saw (metal-cutting blade) and then stored "flat-pack" style in my garage
Then I'll have more driveway space for w116 and the next bargain that comes along

And I was looking at the ford conversion... very cool!!!

[OzBenzHead]

blakamin: Welcome!   

The earlier advice re the possible need to do some strengthening is no doubt well founded.

When Erich Waxenberger dropped an M100 6.3 into a W109 that's one item he overlooked and, as a consequence, early W109 300SEL 6.3s had a habit of cracking their firewalls / bulkheads from the excessive torque. (Later versions of the 109 6.3 had a strengthened firewall.)

Go for it - and best of luck with the project!

[OzBenzHead]

But there's the rub.  Early 107s had front-end chassis weaknesses, according to stuff I've read on the 114 and 107 forums at Ozbenz. And the 107 is closely related, chassiswise, to the 114.

[s class]

I believe the 107's and 114's share the front subchassis and various bushes.  There was a recall on the 107's to stregthen the subchassis.  As a minimum I suggest you do this mod to your 114, for all the same reasons they did it to the 107.  Do an internet search on it, or better still try to look at some 107's.  A lot of them have not had the mod done.  You can copy the mod yourself if you TRUST your welding. 

107's got 350 and 450 engines, and so yo might look at the sump off one of them to help you with clearances.  I'm not sure if the 107 and 116 350's had the same sump or not.  Same goes for exhaust manifolds.  450SLC's should be plentiful in breakers yards and could donate a lot of the bits you need for your project. 

Bear in mind the M116 350 engine needs an oil cooler, as does its gearbox.  I'm not sure if your 114 has these coolers or not.  Look into that. 

To cope with the extra power you will want to look at your brakes.  Certainly you want vented disks - probably 107 items will work. 

114's, 115's, 116's, 123's and 107's are all of a similar breed and there is lots of parts sharing between them.  If you look into this 70's MB parts bin you might just be lucky and find things like engine mounts that will work etc. 

Let us know how you get on

[ohm5s]

Sounds like a cool Q car!  would suprise a few people when you put your foot down, the 350 lump is very heavy so watch suspension steerinc etc.

I was having a similar thought on my 350 se, what would it be like if I dropped in the beef from a 560sec, should be a lighter mill with awesome power, might give the 6.9 a run for its money

[gregdeklerk]

Welcome to the forum blakamin. I think S Class has given you some excellent advice.

[Mercules]

And I was looking at the ford conversion... very cool!!!

Thanks!

I don't really know much about Mercs to tell the truth - but as far as any engine converison is concerned (especially if the engine/gearbox were never original equipment in the model/chassis/make) you will need to modify almost everything! It is extremely rare that engine mounts, radiator hoses, fuel lines (exception on mine!  ) will bolt straight up, and you need to be meticulous about making sure every component is covered.

A lot of thought goes into the engineering of a car - so if you plan to re-engineer it, you will have to do some serious thinking yourself!

I believe the 107's and 114's share the front subchassis and various bushes.  There was a recall on the 107's to stregthen the subchassis.  As a minimum I suggest you do this mod to your 114, for all the same reasons they did it to the 107.  Do an internet search on it, or better still try to look at some 107's.  A lot of them have not had the mod done.  You can copy the mod yourself if you TRUST your welding. 

107's got 350 and 450 engines, and so yo might look at the sump off one of them to help you with clearances.  I'm not sure if the 107 and 116 350's had the same sump or not.  Same goes for exhaust manifolds.  450SLC's should be plentiful in breakers yards and could donate a lot of the bits you need for your project. 

Bear in mind the M116 350 engine needs an oil cooler, as does its gearbox.  I'm not sure if your 114 has these coolers or not.  Look into that. 

To cope with the extra power you will want to look at your brakes.  Certainly you want vented disks - probably 107 items will work. 

114's, 115's, 116's, 123's and 107's are all of a similar breed and there is lots of parts sharing between them.  If you look into this 70's MB parts bin you might just be lucky and find things like engine mounts that will work etc. 

Let us know how you get on

Wise words from a wise man!

My 2 cents worth!

Cameron

[blakamin]

Thanks again guys,

I'll know more today when I pick her up

My brother-in-law builds rally cars for a hobby so welding shouldn't be an issue... I'm sure I'll find a way to make her fit!