280SE Questions

[paulbarras]

Hi All,

This is my first post to the w116 forums, even though I've been watching it for some time now. Keep up the great work.

I am a college student in Southern California considering a 280SE for my first car. I have the impression that the 280SE isn't quite as popular as the 450SEL and other V8 variants, at least here in America. I would like to know whether the m110 engine has any weak spots, and what I should be expecting from this car?

The car itself is a Californian native, and is a 1978 model year car. I will be seeing pictures of it sometime soon. Is there anything that I should look out for?

Also, I would like to know how servicing costs are like from the American members of this site, as well as a fair value for the model. The car I am considering has some modifications done to it, but they are mainly in the interior, consisting of a 190E 2.3-16 console with ammeter and voltmeter and a decent in-car entertainment system. Would these modifications subtract substantially from the value of the car? What would be a fair price to offer for a car in good condition?

Thanks in advance.

[Denis]

Hi paulbarras

Let me start you off : the 280SE has the M110 engine. Early M110 had problems with camshaft bearings and early wear of valve guides. The car you are looking at is likely to have the later engine but make sure that it doesn't emit blue smoke or make real noise at the valves. Also check that the cooling system has coolant in it and NOTHING else such as oil...

Since you don't state the milleage, it is hard to say more except that the USA version of this car took a 40+ hp whallop when its got "smogged" hence the lack of success of that model in the USA. This alone can be a good point for a buyer. The car you are looking at has about 142 SAE hp versus 180 or 190 for a 4.5.

I don't believe that the interior mods have much of an effect on the value of the car which should be ...low. How low depends on your environment.

Denis

Paris, France

[OzBenzHead]

... the USA version of this car took a 40+ hp whallop when its got "smogged" hence the lack of success of that model in the USA. This alone can be a good point for a buyer. The car you are looking at has about 142 SAE hp versus 180 or 190 for a 4.5.

A damned shame!  The Euro-spec M110 gave 185 neddies.

I don't believe that the interior mods have much of an effect on the value of the car which should be ...low.

That is, until you try to resell it - then such mods are likely to severely devalue it in the eyes of many Benz heads.

[Denis]

Hi

BTW Ozbenzhead, the Euro M110 has 185 DIN hp making it more like 200 SAE hp ! like a 30% loss.

The reason I said that the mods have not much impact is that the model is not very sought after - you know, why not get a 300SD and really save fuel 

Denis

Paris, France

[Denis]

Addendum

It is even worse than I thought.

I found out that the California version of the 280SE has 137 SAE hp...

Denis

Paris, France

[paulbarras]

That's barely enough to move the paint around, it seems. Thanks for the heads up.

[Freiheit]

How convienient. I signed up here to ask the same question as Paul and it seems we're both in the same boat. Got my eye on a 280 SE with about 93k on it. I'm just graduating from college. I don't carry and debt, but I don't have much discretionary income yet. Seller is trustworthy, but I also know he's been eager to liquidate some assets for a big project so I'm doing my homework before looking at the car.

The big question: I'm just coming out of school. I can only buy, insure, and afford ONE car. Is a w116 a good candidate for that?

So far I've read the following about the car, things to look for/quirks:

1. K-Tronic. Seems like this is the source of most engine issues. Diagnosis looks pretty simple, but it could be time consuming. It doesn't strike me as being any more finicky than any other early fuel injected car.

2. Steering box. Before I left the country I sold my 85 RX-7, had a similar issue with the reticulating ball steering where it wears and you get a really sloppy center.

3. Timing chain. It seems that they wear down pretty fast (40-50k). On the upside they simply wear. They generally don't cause a catastrophic failure and the noise is pretty noticable too.

4. Parts. Kind of expensive, but there is a good used and knockoff parts market.

5. Mileage. Looks like 15-20mpg. Not great, but I've driven worse, 1965 Lincoln that got 10mpg got me through 2 years of high school. LPG conversions seem pretty common, but there might be some issues with the fuel injection.

6. Power. Its a stout motor. The W116's are all out of the 25 year range, so in Ohio I'm free to gut the emissions. I was also reading on uhh benzworld that swapping over a MAF sensor from a bigger engine would let the w110 breathe a little better.

Did I miss anything? Did I get something wrong?

I'm also looking to update the stereo. I don't want an entertainment-mobile, but I do want to be able to listen to my MP3's with some good 3 or 4 way speakers. I'll probably go through Crutchfield. Any gotchas for that kind of install?

I like a little bit of power, run the occasional TSD rally, but I still have to drive the thing to work and on road trips. Will a w116 fit the bill?

Also, I'm currently living in Dresden Germany, but I go home to Ohio/Indiana in a few days. Anyone local?

Thank you for your help and advice. Tschuss!

[s class]

Freiheit

I have used a 280SE euro as daily transport for about 10 years.  It started when I was a student, and more latterly I've used it as business transport.  The mileage is now up to 424000km, or possibly more.

Point is,
I kept it going as reliable transport for a long time with limited funds.  Realise though that the cars are old so you are going to deal with age related degradation as well as mileage related degradation.  In your position you could use the car as a daily driver, but it is only suitable for someone with some understanding of the car and a willingness to work on it yourself. 

I think maintenance wise the most important thing is to understand what can go wrong (and you seem well up to speed on that) and what must be done in each instance.  A few pointers - don't mess around driving the car if there are cooling issues.  The M110 is known to blow gaskets if it overheats - and then it gets expensive.  Don't drive if the gearbox is flaring - you will burn the bands and thats expensive.  Keep the tappets and fuel injection properly adjusted.  Also realise that these older engines need more regular oil changes than modern engines.  I change oil every 7500 to 8000km and the car has treated me well. 

If you keep your eye on basics like this, you will avoid the really nasty expensive surprises quite easily, and the car will be a pleasure to own and drive.  However if you;re the kind of driver that's allergic to changins spark-plugs, rather get a '92 corolla. 

Oh yes, welcome to this group.  You'll find a lot of enthusiastic advise here.

Ryan in South Africa

[Freiheit]

Self-maintenance is not a problem. Having limited funds means I can't afford standard mechanics rates to fix things. I also enjoy doing it. I typically try do oil and filter changes every 3000 miles (4800 km), which usually means 3500miles by the time I have a free evening to do it.

What do you mean by, " if the gearbox is flaring "?? I haven't heard the term.

Thanks for the advice.

Jon - DE (3 more days) / USA

[s class]

Flaring means the gearbox is slipping the bands at gearchange - in otherwords the change is too mushy.

You can grow with the car.  When I got my 280SE my skills level was changing oil and plugs, now I'm willing to tackle anything . Although the 280SE is big, heavy and solidly build its still a basic car to understand.  If you can get your head around how the K-jet works, everything else is simple in comparison.  There's lots of great help on this and other websites about K-jet on the M110 and other benx engines, so you are not stranded. 

Ryan

[Freiheit]

The K-Jet was my real worry.

One other thing came up. My car guy friends are jumping on me to buy this, but my brother (I need to go faster, but wont take 75kg of crap out of my boot or go to the gym) pointed out that Mercedes has a reputation for lasting forever BUT when something does break parts can get expensive in a hurry.

Since I'll be living alone and needing this car to get to work, how easy is it to get parts quickly (from a chain parts store or dealer in the US)?? I can't wait for things to get shipped or scrouge for a local scrapyard with a parts car.

How expensive are common-failure parts? I consider things like alternators, radiators, belts, hoses, spark plugs, filters, and fuses to be common-fail parts.

[oscar]

Hi Freiheit

Check this store out http://autohausaz.com/.

I bought a bunch of stuff off them a bit over a week ago based on a few recommendations.  My gear arrived in Aus 5 days later including a weekend in the middle.  I bought mainly trim, but their speed and price was fantastic.  Your going back to the US yes?  You'd get parts the next day.

An idea of price.  A local parts store in my town wanted $320US for the ignition coil.  Same Bosch one form autohaus is about $45US.

There are some expensive parts but they also last a long time once replaced. You'll find many cheap mercs will be running on original or very old parts and may continue to do so for some time.  A bit of a pie-in-the-sky analogy I know, but check out the prices for the 280se parts you mention on that site and you'll see how inexpensive some things are.  There's a dozen sites like it in the US.  Ahh, the beauty of a big economy.

[Freiheit]

Thanks for the tip oscar.

I didn't think but I just checked Autozone and AAP. I should have looked first before asking. Those are two big chain stores in the US for car parts.

Parts really aren't that expensive if Im ok with something other than Mercedes-Benz original parts.

[s class]

K jet isn't that terrifying once you get the hang of it.

In terms of spares availability, I believe this is one area that Benz is well ahead of other manufacturers.  Basically anything is availabie from the dealer at very short notice.  You pay for the same though.  You can ofthen buy the same OEM parts from places like Autohauz, but you won't get them the same day.  Even here in South Africa, if I contact my spares sales guy at the dealership before 10am in the morning, I can have my spares the same day after 2pm, even if they are flown from the other end of the country.  And this is in AFRICA mind you.

Ryan

[OzBenzHead]

Parts really aren't that expensive if Im ok with something other than Mercedes-Benz original parts.

Freiheit: If you shop around for prices on genuine M-B parts (probably avoiding the official M-B stealerships) you might be pleasantly surprised and find that genuine is less expensive.

Genuine is almost certainly less expensive in the long term, as non-genuine parts are rarely engineered or manufactured as well or made from such good materials as the original M-B. Few non-OEM brands go to the extremes of quality that M-B does, and you're likely to find that a non-genuine part, despite costing marginally less than a well-sourced genuine part, will have a far shorter service life, thereby being poor economy.

I understand that your budget will be tight, but you'll probably be doing yourself few favours using poor-quality parts. Using non-genuine parts, you well may need to replace those parts more than once. If you use the real thing, chances are you'll only replace it that once for the duration of the car's life (or your ownership of it).

Example (from Oz):
I needed a new distributor for my W116 280SE.
The local M-B stealership wanted $2370 (AUD).
The local non-genuine parts house wanted over $500 for a non-genuine unit (made somewhere in Asia, using ethically suspect sweatshop labour and crappy materials).
My Oz-based, independent, one-shop (i.e not a chain or part thereof), genuine M-B parts supplier charged - for a genuine OEM Bosch, the real McCoy - $110!

Why risk degrading the reliability of your genuine M-B by using non-genuine parts of doubtful provenance and longevity?

Good luck.