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1979 350 SE parked for 5 years

Started by maremma, 25 March 2020, 12:04 PM

I would like some advice to start engine.

The engine runs.
0 (0%)
The current comes to the candles.
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Total Members Voted: 0

maremma

The engine runs, but does not start. By detaching the fuel hose from the injection pump and blowing, no air gets into the tank. Candles work. What can I do? Could it be the tank clogged?

rumb

Hi there,
Please tell where in the world you are so we can help with your translations.

I think you mean to say spark plugs instead of candles.

There are two lines connected to the fuel distributor (there is no injection pump)

Disconnect both large line going to the fuel distributor. Put a small container at the end to catch fuel and try starting to car. Make sure fuel come out of one of them.  The other line is the return line.  You can blow air back through that line to clear it out.

Before going any further remove the filter on the bottom the the gas tank as they get plugged up. Be aware that all the gasoline will come out. You dont want to use old gas anyway.

Here we would say the engine turns over but does not start.  Running is when the engine is working fine.

Let us know the above turns out..
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS
'21 E450 Cabrio

floyd111

I think he's French ;D candles = Bougies, and bougies are spark plugs in Dutch and French, but bougies are not candles in Dutch. In German it's "ignite-candles", so that ain't the same. Est-ce que j'ai raison, Maremma?

maremma

I live in Italy, southern Tuscany. Sorry but in Italian  "spark" of car is called a candle, like that of wax. The pump and filter are blocked. I will replace them. Thank you

floyd111

I stand corrected. never thought of Italian, haha! Glad you see you're thinking about your spark plugs, rather than be holed up, afraid of the media hammer all over.

milo

Can you please remove your primary fuel regulator at the back of your FD and tell me if yours has a separate removable
piston?
It will need cleaning anyway and would be a great help to me, my fuel return line was blocked at the tank end which seems a common problem.

maremma

I replaced fuel pump (blocked) and filter. Now the engine starts, turns irregularly, but the accelerator does not work.

revilla

Quote from: milo on 03 April 2020, 07:09 AM
Can you please remove your primary fuel regulator at the back of your FD and tell me if yours has a separate removable
piston?
It will need cleaning anyway and would be a great help to me, my fuel return line was blocked at the tank end which seems a common problem.

Hi Milo,

Yes, there's always a removable piston which job is to regulate the system pressure.  Spec is 5.2-5.8 bar.  It's adjustable by adding (more) or removing (less) shims at the bottom of the large spring. The o-ring on it has to be in good shape to perform its job.  Apart from the o-ring near the tip, there's no other rubber pieces on nor inside the piston.

You can see the picture here: 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.pelicanparts.com%2Fuploads22%2F0071383194162.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.pelicanparts.com%2Fporsche-911-technical-forum%2F779177-more-fuel-distributor-questions-injectors-pulsing-video.html&tbnid=aq6gBVKoA9Ka0M&vet=12ahUKEwj4rurrzdjoAhUZ_BoKHdJxC4YQMygaegQIARA7..i&docid=_jmob22xVexvCM&w=800&h=1067&q=pressure%20regulator%20K-JET&ved=2ahUKEwj4rurrzdjoAhUZ_BoKHdJxC4YQMygaegQIARA7 

Hope it helps

R

milo

Hi R
Can you look at the bottom right picture in the frame of images you sent, that one has 3 rubber doughnuts on the end and is the one im trying to fit to my car with no success so far , it doesn't want to fit easily , im looking to find someone with this type of setup.
cheers.

revilla

Hello Milo,

At this point we might need the help of other forum members. 

I have never seen that setup. In fact my interpretation of that picture was just to show the content of the kit, which include the o-rings, all those MANY shims, etc.  But honestly I've never seen that.  Ours are identical, but there's a piston, a large spring, there's the green o-ring and another one at the tip of the piston.  I only had to add one 1mm shim to arrive to 5.6 bars.

The only thing K-jet pressures reg I have ever seen is the following.

The 2 o-rings and the washer at the bottom are spares. 

The FD for sure needs a piston and a large spring to hold the pressure.  They aren't shown in your picture.  With all those o-rings and all those shims I understand why it's hard to get the pre reg in.  What's your primary pressure?  I don't see how the pressure can raise to 5.x without a piston/spring.


raueda1

Quote from: revilla on 09 April 2020, 04:14 PM
Hello Milo,

At this point we might need the help of other forum members. 

I have never seen that setup. In fact my interpretation of that picture was just to show the content of the kit, which include the o-rings, all those MANY shims, etc. But honestly I've never seen that.  Ours are identical, but there's a piston, a large spring, there's the green o-ring and another one at the tip of the piston.  I only had to add one 1mm shim to arrive to 5.6 bars.

The only thing K-jet pressures reg I have ever seen is the following.

The 2 o-rings and the washer at the bottom are spares. 

The FD for sure needs a piston and a large spring to hold the pressure.  They aren't shown in your picture.  With all those o-rings and all those shims I understand why it's hard to get the pre reg in.  What's your primary pressure?  I don't see how the pressure can raise to 5.x without a piston/spring.
That is correct.  At some point I got that kit.  The pic on the link just shows all the stuff.  Your picture of the whole thing shows what goes where. 

Incidentally, I discovered that the spring loaded pin that goes inside the plunger can be a problem.  The length doesn't always seem to be identical in all cases.  I replaced mine with and there turned out to be about 1mm difference between the replacement and the original.  It was not immediately obvious but enough to mess things up.  My problems were solved by replacing the rubber parts on the original.  If your assembly was working at some point and you replace it make sure that the pin lengths are the exact same.
-Dave
Now:  1976 6.9 Euro, 2015 GL550
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

revilla

#11
Hello Dave,

Thanks for sharing that. It's a puzzle piece that might fit well in a previous observation I wrote:

In 2 of my FDs the plungers are a bit different. The main difference I observed was the tip forward of the o-ring was longer in one of them.

It might be (to the experts to confirm) the longer plunger fits with the longer spring-loaded-pin you observed and viceversa. If so, the net effect on the system is zero. That would explain (?) why when I swapped the 2 (just to amuse myself and learn) there was no impact on S Pressure, CP nor on performance.

If this hypothesis is true, we're witnessing collective knowledge in action. Others call it synergy, but whatever its name this whole thing of contributing to help each other is awesome. Your piece of information + mine = better understanding of these wonderful machines.    ;D

But I promise not to get too excited before someone can confirm or reject that theory :)

@ Milo:
I think your original question is pretty much answered now (unless somebody speaks up otherwise).  Yes, there's always a piston and a large spring in the pressure reg. No rubber between the pin and the inside of the piston. Just an o-ring at the tip on the piston and a larger size one at the base of the assy.  Pretty much what's shown in my last picture. Those replacement kits don't come with the piston, I imagine because it's hard to think they can go bad other than its o-ring which is included.  Maybe this is what caused the confusion because you mentioned it's was a while back when you disassembled the FD.

It might still be stuck inside the FD. But it's not visible in fact in your 2nd  picture. When mine gets stuck I place a rug in front of the hole and unplug the blue connector for a fraction of a second, enough to push it out to the rug.  If doing so doesn't work, it's time to look around your garage or try to get them (piston + spring) used somewhere.

When you get the full assy back together please refer back to Dave's comments to avoid that potential mismatch condition.

Please keep us posted on the results of your search. 

We won't rest until we get your 350 machine running like a Swiss Watch   :)


milo

After looking real close at my posted pictures I am now almost certain that the brass fitting is not removable, just visible behind is a glimmer of chrome and looking in the return port there is a small piston , this is not the same setup that seems common to many.
The hole in the brass fitting is just smaller than the rubber doughnuts on the springy valve fitting. It seems I just need to push it in there but it looks like a one way trip.Mmm just not sure.

maremma

Good morning from Italy. My w116 350SE did not start. I replaced the fuel pump and filter. Now the engine is running, but it will not accelerate. I'll send you the photo of the gas station. What do you advise me to do?

milo

The car is no good ,best to sell parts from it..
Please sell me the fuel distributor[gas station] or try blowing down the fuel return line it will be blocked if the car has not ran for ages.