Author Topic: Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match  (Read 623 times)

raueda1

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Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match
« on: 31 March 2021, 07:40 PM »
I'm trying to assemble the best out of 2 instrument clusters.  The first, which I'll call "Older" (upper pic) was in my car when I bought it (1976 Euro).  The other, which I'll call "Newer," (lower pic) was out of a 1977 US spec car.  I want to see if I can't put together a hybrid to get the best out of both in terms of look but also originality.  There are a number of subtle differences.  But the main ones:

                                  Older              Newer
Top speed indicated      160mph         170mph (both have km/hr and mph scales
Redline on tach             5300 rpm      5000 rpm

Neither speedo/odo works 100%, so one or the other will get sent out for fixing.  I'm inclined to go with Newer (170 mph) just on principal.  After all, more is more.  Using the 5300 rpm tach from older seems like a no-brainer (and the older clock seems to work better too).  I'll use the case from Newer.  The indicator lights are less faded and it has the up-down suspension outline (older is just a red light).  And it's just nicer overall.  That leaves us with the oil/temp/gas module.  I kind of like older, seems a bit more euro somehow.

Also, a question about the US spec cars:  did the 1977 have a seat belt warning light circuit?  To my understanding the 1976 euro did not.  However, both seem to have the indicator.  The back of newer has one more pin on the large plug than older so I'm wondering if that's what it is.  ???

Any comments and/or counter arguments would be welcome.  So would info on what's actually supposed to be on the car.  All this stuff has so many variations and has been though so many changes it's hard to know what's really what.  Thanks and cheers,
 
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

floyd111

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Re: Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match
« Reply #1 on: 02 April 2021, 08:31 PM »
I hope you can get the answers you need, coz this might just be the foggiest of all the w116 specs to obtain.
I have been struggling to get data on the instrument panels for a long time, and VIN or Area specifications are even harder to understand, especially if you are driving a gray import or a conversion.
If your car is a distributor -import they must have had a seat belt light, coz of US laws.
Not sure about the gray imports.

raueda1

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Re: Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match
« Reply #2 on: 03 April 2021, 08:30 AM »
I hope you can get the answers you need, coz this might just be the foggiest of all the w116 specs to obtain.
I have been struggling to get data on the instrument panels for a long time, and VIN or Area specifications are even harder to understand, especially if you are driving a gray import or a conversion.
If your car is a distributor -import they must have had a seat belt light, coz of US laws.
Not sure about the gray imports.
Thanks Stan, that explains the silence on my post.  It turns out that BOTH of the clusters were ALREADY mix-and-matched!  Newer was from a legitimate, 1977 MB import.  Older was a 1976 gray market Euro import first registered in USA in 1977, so considered 1977 on registration.  Go figure.  Anyway, here are the dates stamped on the back of the respective elements:

            "Oil
             Temp
             Fuel"                  Speedo                Tach
Older    5.76 ("Oel" etc)     4.77 (160mph)      1.79 (5300rpm)
Newer   12.82 (symbols)   3.77 (170mph)      2.77 (5000rpm)

From this I conclude that Older had speedo replaced for import to USA and then a new tach a couple years later.  But do tachs ever go bad?  Meanwhile, Newer gets a new multi-guage sometime after 12.82.  Make of this what you will.  And I can't make any sense out of the seatbelt circiut.  I guess we'll never know about the provenance of this stuff.  I'm just swapping Older's tach into Newer and done with it.  I did stumble on this blog that might be useful for somebody.
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/mercedes-r107-w116-instrument-cluster-restoration

Thanks again and cheers,
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

ptashek

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Re: Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match
« Reply #3 on: 03 April 2021, 10:12 AM »
Here's what's available for the 116.036 instrument cluster in Xentry (parts, VIN breaks etc.)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cc39tfxsla91vkn/AAAOZxkFTKp9Er_SlzS1iVDOa?dl=0
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1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)

Max-NL

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Re: Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match
« Reply #4 on: 03 April 2021, 04:13 PM »
I took these pictures from the owners manual of #140. The drawn cluster has a 5000 RPM redline tach while in the technical data it says that the max allowed rev is 5300 RPM (Toelaatbaar max. toerental .. 5300 omw/min.), and has text instead of icons on the Fuel/Oil/Coolant dials. The cluster on #140 has a redline of 5000 RPM and text on the Fuel/Oil/Coolant dials. Looking at some newer European 6.9's even they had text instead of icons. So not sure why your "newer" cluster has icons.

Can't really help with the speedometers as I currently have no access to Xentry. But what I can tell you is that your old speedometer starts with an 107 part number and your new speedometer starts with an 116 part number, which is odd. Maybe someone could look up to see to which models use the 107 speedometer.

Euro W116's never came with seat belt warnings. I think these were first fitted in European cars in either the w126, w124 or w201. But the handbook has a section about the seat belt warning system : https://handbook.w116.org/Chassis/54-Electrical/
1971 R107 350 SL (Dad's)
1975 W116 280 S (Dad's)
1975 W116 450 SEL 6.9 #140 (Dad's)
1977 W123 230 (Mine)
1992 W124 230 CE (Mine)

raueda1

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Re: Speedo and Instrument Cluster mix-and-match
« Reply #5 on: 04 April 2021, 09:08 AM »
I took these pictures from the owners manual of #140. The drawn cluster has a 5000 RPM redline tach while in the technical data it says that the max allowed rev is 5300 RPM (Toelaatbaar max. toerental .. 5300 omw/min.), and has text instead of icons on the Fuel/Oil/Coolant dials. The cluster on #140 has a redline of 5000 RPM and text on the Fuel/Oil/Coolant dials. Looking at some newer European 6.9's even they had text instead of icons. So not sure why your "newer" cluster has icons.

Can't really help with the speedometers as I currently have no access to Xentry. But what I can tell you is that your old speedometer starts with an 107 part number and your new speedometer starts with an 116 part number, which is odd. Maybe someone could look up to see to which models use the 107 speedometer.

Euro W116's never came with seat belt warnings. I think these were first fitted in European cars in either the w126, w124 or w201. But the handbook has a section about the seat belt warning system : https://handbook.w116.org/Chassis/54-Electrical/
In line with Stan's remarks, I think we're trying to know the unknowable.  Pic below is from USA manual.  I have 4 and they're all the same.  Note 5300 rpm tach (same as Older), 170mph speedo (same as Newer) and text lables (not icons).  So the manuals differ regionally, as do the tachs.  As for text vs icons, I did a picture search all over the web.  It seems like icons predominated but I couldn't find any clear pattern.  Maybe some combination of specific markets and model year? 

In any case, I give up.  I have a feeling that there are lots of different permutations out there and there may not be a 'right" one unless you can be 100% certain that it's all original.  My sample size is just 2 cars, yet both are mix-'n-matched!  Thanks and cheers,
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0