Removing finish from dash wood veneer

[polymathman]

Just a quick thing I tried.

Working on stripping some old paint from the house, putting my tools away and noticed some dashboard wood from a old 116. Decided to see what it would take to remove the old finish.

Using a Bosch 1942 heat gun and a plastic scraper I had made up from a cutting board I heated up the finish till it started to bubble. Old finish easily chipped right off, no harm or burning to the wood.

Measured the surface temp at @250 Celsius.

Did the whole section under the steering wheel in less that 10 minutes - looks great.

[floyd111]

This will still leave you with residue in the pores, no doubt, even though possibly invisible.
I very much wonder whether you will be able to obtain a 5-star finish after a few layers of lacquering.
You know that a proper job takes some 6-7 layers, with a 3-week hardening time in between each spray?

Still, even though you may want to do a quicker job, I would still like to see the result!

[polymathman]

Veneer sample was taken from a straight piece in good condition.

The wooden trim piece is a symmetrical 5 layer laminate composed of thin face and back layers, with three thicker core layers. The face material is a mildly open-grained wood while the back layer is closed-grain.
Thickness:
Face and back .0113" (.287mm)
Core layers: .0223" (.566mm)
Total thickness: .895" (22.73mm)

Measurement was done by shaving an edge clean and photographing it under a microscope with a known reference, The image was then measured using photogrammetry. Being wood, there are variations in the thickness, but these numbers are a good average.

The coating applied had an average thickness of .011" (.279mm). It appeared to be a resin, and would not soften in alcohol or lacquer thinner.

[floyd111]

You may be approaching this a bit too scientifically, haha

The W116 wood trim  pretty simple. The factory uses solid pieces of wood, and covers them with veneer.
Re-doing them means you cut off the complete veneer layer and backing, and sand the plain, solid wood smooth, removing all leftover fibers and glue.
Then you apply new veneer.

Re-lacquering such pieces after removing the lacquer layers from existing veneer is not the popular way to obtain a showroom finish, but again, that is for those that care.

[s class]

Re-lacquering such pieces after removing the lacquer layers from existing veneer is not the popular way to obtain a showroom finish, but again, that is for those that care.

There will always be a difference of opinion.  This is exactly our preferred method when we restore W111 coupes, W109's and the like.  We try very hard to preserve the original veneer if at all feasible. 

[floyd111]

OK, I see that this approach makes sense coz it saves money and work.
Original veneer is great, but both veneer and new lacquer need to be very good, because veneer doesn't last without proper lacquer.
What I am saying is that this idea works, but only if there's a case where the lacquer has gone a bit dull, or scratched.
The cases I have seen on older cars are almost always more serious than that, or people won't even touch the veneer.
Dull or mildly scratched only gets the full Monty in a 600 or a 190SL. But in a W116?
To me, this idea ends up only a money saver, and one does not really achieve new-condition.
I also deduct that if the veneer is still good enough to save, it (mostly)won't need a lacquer overhaul.
Does that statement make sense? Sure there are better ways to say it.

[s class]

Here's the result of work we did in a 450SE last month.  We fitted a good used dash, and repaired the wood by removing the old cracked lacquer/resin, and recoating.

[s class]

Sorry, the pics aren't necessarily in chronological sequence. 

[s class]

We charge about 650US to do a set of 116 wood like this. 

[polymathman]

Here is a cross-section photograph of the interior wooden dash trim from a MB 116.024.
On the right is a .010" reference.

One way of thinking about the face veneer: it's about 3 $100 bills in thickness.

[floyd111]

S-Class..
YOU provide these services for a fee? How come I never read about that? There's been quite a few chaps looking for such a provider!
polymathman..
That's a fine looking set indeed.

[s class]

I own and run a restoration shop near Johannesburg, South Africa.  The wood set above is a sample of what we have done recently.  I don't advertise, because I already have more work than I can cope with.  There are something like 15 cars in the shop at the moment, mostly 116's, 107's and 126's. 

[floyd111]

OK, and on that note.. A change of topic!

I am just talking to Madeira Concepts about them producing custom-made zebrano speaker grills for W116 hat shelf speakers.(for me/us at the .org)
They are willing, but you..
Guess you already answered the question about you taking on projects..busy.
Still, you may be the man to ask about the actual screw hole offset numbers, regarding the OEM-fitted hat shelf speakers.
Asking now.
You happen to know?

[UTn_boy]

I'm not sure if everyone is aware, but there seems to be some confusion on the type of finish.  The very early W116 cars had tinted nitrocellulose lacquer.  For example, many, but not all, of the early models that had the dash wood with the ridge in the middle of it would have had the nitrocellulose lacquer on the wood.  (on a side note...the early cars had the option of macassar Ebony....my favorite).  Anyway, after about late 1973 to early 1974 Mercedes started using polyester resin on all of the wood across all model ranges.  It, too, was tinted.  When working with Macassar ebony, zebrano, or walnut root, it is important that the veneer is not stained.  The wood looses definition when it is stained.  That is why they tinted the clear top coat. 

Refinishing a later model in lacquer is cosmetically incorrect, but yields spectacular results.....as long as the wood isn't exposed to a lot of sun.  The lacquer will craze in a few years if exposed to sun regularly. 

[polymathman]

UTn_boy, it seems to be a matter of the customs of speech in different places.

Lacquering is a term which, I noticed, is used differently in the US.

It would seem that the rest of the world groups all types of finishing by referring to the process as "Lacquering."

Here we refer to the application of the TYPE of finish, not the process. So we would shellac, varnish, lacquer or paint something - referring to the material used, and the process itself would be called finishing.