Refrigerant gas regulations in Germany?

[s class]

Here in South Africa, R12 is outlawed, and R134a is the default.  I undertand that this is also being phased out in many countries?

I know a guy who wants to export a 1972 LHD 350SL to Germany, and he was wondering what legislation the a/c system would need to comply with, and what measures he should take in advance of the export.

Any help appreciated. 

[tcj]

if you import a car with R12 to germany your car will stay at the customs until
you have send an expensive AC car guy to suck off all R12 including proper disposal.
No exceptions.

There are high penalties on the import of R12.

[ptashek]

R12 is illegal for "civilian" use in all of the European Union. For the gory details, you can check regulation 517/2014.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32014R0517

[daantjie]

German customs don't bugger around you have to comply absolutely as tcj has indicated or suffer lots of pain

[adamb]

Mine is driving around the UK with elicit R12 gas some 20 years already.

[tcj]

@adamb: correct: a car that is already in the EU and still have R12 is allowed to drive around as long as the AC works.
But it is not allowed to refill with R12. So repairing the AC includes changing to R134A.

[TJ 450]

It's the same in Australia, R12 is banned and can't be sold or used to recharge any system, although if a system is already charged from the periods when it was allowed it is OK to use. Most systems would have failed by now though and R134a is the norm, there is a market for hydrocarbon refrigerants as well which seem to be good in R12 systems unmodified.

Tim

[s class]

So if we convert the system to 134a here, and have documentation to that effect, we should be OK?

[ptashek]

So if we convert the system to 134a here, and have documentation to that effect, we should be OK?

As long as it's well documented (invoices and all that jazz), then it should be fine.

[UTn_boy]

I'm curious.....how is it that the European Union and Australia can overstep the rules, laws, and regulations set forth by the EPA?  The EPA outranks all government entities, so I have to wonder how much of this is true?   

[Max-NL]

I'm curious.....how is it that the European Union and Australia can overstep the rules, laws, and regulations set forth by the EPA?  The EPA outranks all government entities, so I have to wonder how much of this is true?

The EPA has only jurisdiction the USA. Here in Europe we have our own Environment agency which of course has only jurisdiction in Europe. They coordinate but the rules, laws and regulations set by the EPA are not applicable here in Europe and vice versa.

[TJ 450]

We have independent EPA boards for each state as well as a federal department of sorts, but yes AFAIK it has nothing to do with the EPA in the USA.

Tim

[UTn_boy]

I was always told that EPA was a world wide entity that was present in all countries of the world.....I guess it's not. 

[ptashek]

I was always told that EPA was a world wide entity that was present in all countries of the world.....I guess it's not.

That would be the United Nations Environment agency, which sets the global agenda, which even the EPA must follow - provided the US government ratifies relevant treaties, which it hasn't the greatest record of doing.

[gavin116]

Hi Ryan
I was told that our cars do not operate well on R134A. The system wasn't designed to run on this, and it's best to keep it "R12" if possible. To this effect, I had my air-con system redone in late 2014 using a R12 drop in replacement, and it has worked flawlessly ever since without any issues: it runs wonderfully cool. The drop in is R22, but this may already have went the same way as R12. Apparently R22's direct replacement is R417A. Being in the UK, we are subject to the same conditions as the rest of Europe.


Here's my air-con refurb


Perhaps this will help.