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Garage => Interiors & Exteriors => Topic started by: floyd111 on 20 January 2016, 01:37 AM

Title: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 20 January 2016, 01:37 AM
How many manual-transmission cars were built in 280SEL and 350SEL?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 20 January 2016, 04:48 AM
Even though Mercedes noted on the build sheet and/or data card that the car was a standard shift or not, I don't think that they kept up with how many were standard shift....or automatic, for that matter.  Then again, they may have and we just don't know it. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 20 January 2016, 04:56 AM
According to http://wiki.mercedes-benz-classic.com/index.php/Kategorie:W116/en manual transmission was the standard on 280/350 SE/SEL, until about 1977, when auto became the default. I have seen very few manuals for sale in European markets, and I scour the web regularly to keep track. I'd say they're as rare as the column shift auto versions.

I've asked folks in the MB Museum and the Classic Centre if they kept any records on detailed model breakdown, and the answer was along the lines of "not beyond model designation", and that data is already public.

p.s.: Here's a sample from AutoScout24: http://goo.gl/6XKufz
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 20 January 2016, 06:58 PM
If standard shift was the standard transmission up until 1977, then how is it rare?  That means that over 50% of the 473,035 W116 chassis that were made came out of the factory with a standard transmission.  Rare in the automotive world is considered as being plus or minus 500 units having originally been made and/or that still exist.  I find it hard to believe that there are less than 500 W116 standard transmissions left in the world.  Just my two cents worth. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 20 January 2016, 07:35 PM
I think he was saying Wiki has strange data to add to this matter..
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 20 January 2016, 08:08 PM
Quote from: UTn_boy on 20 January 2016, 06:58 PM
If standard shift was the standard transmission up until 1977, then how is it rare?  That means that over 50% of the 473,035 W116 chassis that were made came out of the factory with a standard transmission.  Rare in the automotive world is considered as being plus or minus 500 units having originally been made and/or that still exist.  I find it hard to believe that there are less than 500 W116 standard transmissions left in the world.  Just my two cents worth.

Manual was only ever offered on the 280 and 350 models, never on 450s, the 6.9 or 300SD.
So that's only 335839 units in total. I don't think 50% of those would have been manual at any rate. Based on current market supply, there's simply no support for it being such a large proportion.
Since there's no breakdown data, we'll never really know if it was 500, 5000 or 250000. I'd love to know though :)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 20 January 2016, 08:30 PM
Well, statistically speaking, we would be able to get to a final percentage with a tiny margin of error, if we had a poll in the forum, with 250-500 partakers. We would already have achieved essential data, with a margin of error of 4-5%.
Nobody should add data of "people I know" or "cars I have seen", nor "Cars previously owned" Those are polluting stats.
Only "cars presently owned" by members should be listed, then it would work.
This would be me:

Manual 0
Auto    3
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 20 January 2016, 10:40 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 20 January 2016, 08:08 PM
Quote from: UTn_boy on 20 January 2016, 06:58 PM
If standard shift was the standard transmission up until 1977, then how is it rare?  That means that over 50% of the 473,035 W116 chassis that were made came out of the factory with a standard transmission.  Rare in the automotive world is considered as being plus or minus 500 units having originally been made and/or that still exist.  I find it hard to believe that there are less than 500 W116 standard transmissions left in the world.  Just my two cents worth.

Manual was only ever offered on the 280 and 350 models, never on 450s, the 6.9 or 300SD.
So that's only 335839 units in total.


And the 280 and 350 models were the most plentiful.  Therefore, There are probably still many of them out there.  Just be cautious of how the word "rare" is used.  Ironically, I've seen more standard shift W116 cars here in the U.S. than I've seen anywhere else. 

A 4.5% margin of error isn't a bad margin of error at all.  Of the three that I currently own, two of them are automatics, and the parts car, a 280sel, is standard shift. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 01:12 AM
That would now be

Manual 1
Auto    5
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 21 January 2016, 03:11 AM
come on all of you fellas!  Chime in!  Doesn't matter if the car is a trailer queen or a parts car.  we need some numbers! 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 21 January 2016, 03:34 AM
Hi Stan


I think it would be more helpful to post a picture of the data build plate (for those who don't know, it's the plate on the front slam panel with raised numbers painted in body colour).  This way we can see how many manuals vs automatics, how may LHD vs RHD, what colours were the most popular, what options were popular etcetera, and a whole load of other information besides.


Not sure if your poll is only for types 280 and 350, as we already know types 300, 450 and 6.9 were only available with auto transmission.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: w116john on 21 January 2016, 04:02 AM
hi all

not scientific in any way but an observation from years of looking at auto sites, the manual trans appeared to be popular in Italy.

often times when  i see one on mobile.de from Italy its a manual 280, i wonder what they are like to drive?

john
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Beastie on 21 January 2016, 04:19 AM
There's only a few dozen or so regular posters here so I don't think you'll get anywhere near enough numbers but for what it's worth my car is an automatic.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 21 January 2016, 06:55 AM
Both of mine, are/were auto, floor shift.
I know at least one other Irish member (Type17) has a floor shift auto 350 as well.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Guillaume C on 21 January 2016, 07:33 AM
According to some MB brochures about automatic transmission :

61% of 1976 280S and 86% of 1976 350SE have automatic transmission.

82% of 1979 280SE have automatic transmission.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 09:26 AM
OK, whilst rudely ignoring Guillaume illusive brochures and Ptashek's acquaintance( :)), I deduct:

manual 1
auto     7

W116John, and Guillaume.. what are your cars?
BTW.. there are countless members here, that DO come out of the woodwork at times.
Maybe this is the time?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Guillaume C on 21 January 2016, 10:26 AM
I currently own :

- 6 280SE with automatic transmission (all floorshift)

- 1 280SE orignally delivered with manual transmission but converted into automatic transmission (floorshift)

- 3 350SE with automatic transmission (2 floorshift and 1 column shift)

- 1 350SEL with automatic transmission (floorshift)

- 4 450SE with automatic transmission (3 floorshift and 1 column shift)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: w116john on 21 January 2016, 11:27 AM
1 450 se  1976 column shift



Quote from: Guillaume C on 21 January 2016, 10:26 AM
I currently own :

- 6 280SE with automatic transmission (all floorshift)

- 1 280SE orignally delivered with manual transmission but converted into automatic transmission (floorshift)

- 3 350SE with automatic transmission (2 floorshift and 1 column shift)

- 1 350SEL with automatic transmission (floorshift)

- 4 450SE with automatic transmission (3 floorshift and 1 column shift)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 12:12 PM
manual 2
auto     22
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Casey on 21 January 2016, 03:46 PM
No 280's or 350's, but...

2 300SD - automatic floor shift
2 450SE - automatic floor shift
2 450SEL - automatic floor shift
2 6.9 - automatic floor shift

The two column shift columns that I have came from early 450SE's, but every W116 that I have personally ever seen in a junkyard, including 280's and a couple euro imports (around 20 total) had automatic floor shift.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 08:48 PM
I think we can get to 100 cars... please keep posting!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: beagle2022 on 21 January 2016, 09:54 PM
79 280sel auto
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Pieter Lötter on 22 January 2016, 03:15 AM
74 280 SE Manual
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: s class on 22 January 2016, 03:22 AM
Here in South Africa, only the 280S, 280SE and 350SE were supplied.

I have seen a lot of cars, and it was quite common for 280S to be manual.  On the contrary, it is very unusual to see manual shift in 280SE or 350SE.

I have at the moment (including parts cars):

280S manual : x2
280S auto : x1
280SE manual : 0
280SE auto : x3
350SE manual : 0
350SE auto : x2
6.9 auto : x2
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Pieter Lötter on 22 January 2016, 03:24 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 12:12 PM
manual 2
auto     22

Is this still only 280's and 350's ?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 22 January 2016, 09:31 AM
I considered that question.
When we reach 100, I will do the stats on the whole line of engines, maybe even keep going from there.
So yes, please list all cars with all transmission types.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 22 January 2016, 05:43 PM
Here's a list of owners so far.  List assumes all manual cars to date are 4 speed.  Also assumes floyd111 has 3 280Ses, and that UTn_boy has 2 280Ses.  Is this correct?


Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), ptashek(1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight) , beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 22 January 2016, 08:22 PM
Yeah.  I have a 280S and a 280sel. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 23 January 2016, 06:17 AM
? You were listed as having 3 cars, and your answer is "yes, 280 S and 280SEL?"
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 23 January 2016, 06:51 AM
I thought Gavin was asking specifically about the 280 models I had.  I do, in fact have 3.  two 280 models, and a 450.  My apologies on the confusion.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Beastie on 23 January 2016, 07:01 AM
Gavin, I think  you missed me in the tally. I have one 280SEL with a floor shift automatic.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ronw123w124 on 23 January 2016, 11:18 AM
I've got a 1978 280S with manual transmission
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 23 January 2016, 01:10 PM
Hi Beastie, you're right I did miss you off the list.  UTn_boy, I chalked you up for a 450SE or is it a SEL?

Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek(1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight) , beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: karmann_20v on 23 January 2016, 02:11 PM
I have 2 450SELs, a 77 and a 79 both with floor mounted shifter autos. I also parted out a 78 280SE also with a floor mounted shifter auto.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 23 January 2016, 08:40 PM
Gavin, my 450 is an SEL model. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Jed on 24 January 2016, 10:13 AM
I have 3 6.9s all with floor mounted shifters.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: tcj on 24 January 2016, 11:31 AM
350SE and 6.9, both floor mounted shifter.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 24 January 2016, 11:36 AM
2 6.9's floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Peter on 24 January 2016, 06:07 PM
1979 280SE automatic floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: OneOneSix on 24 January 2016, 07:45 PM
1973 350SE manual shift
1973 350SE automatic floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 25 January 2016, 04:49 AM
Updated stats, changed UTn_boy's SE to SEL.


Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek(1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight) , beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: littlefin on 25 January 2016, 03:16 PM
Include me in

1979 280SE Auto floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 26 January 2016, 12:32 AM
We're about half way already! Forward to 100 entries! ;D
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: revilla on 28 January 2016, 05:33 PM
Gavin, Stan,

1977 280SEL auto floor
1979 280SE auto floor
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 30 January 2016, 08:48 AM
Updated stats.

Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek(1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 January 2016, 08:53 AM
I must say, these numbers really already reflect other data about production numbers per chassis.
Forward to the next 50 posts.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: cmanson on 01 February 2016, 03:22 PM
77 280s manual
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 02 February 2016, 08:24 AM
Did you simply bump into it, or did you specifically look for a manual?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: cmanson on 02 February 2016, 06:15 PM
For me, priority was mechanically sound and a good interior as spare parts can be an issue in this part. If I'd found an auto in similar condition I'd have bought that no doubt. But to answer your question, I used to prefer manuals cause they give you more control, but now I feel I've started inclining more towards autos
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Casey on 03 February 2016, 12:08 PM
.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Casey on 03 February 2016, 12:10 PM
.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 05 February 2016, 10:42 PM
Bump!
Come on..there are many more of you here that can help us get to 100 entries!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: arcijack on 05 February 2016, 11:09 PM
I have a 1976 6.9 and a 1979 6.9, both floor shifter automatic
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 05 February 2016, 11:50 PM
Thanks, mate!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: daantjie on 07 February 2016, 01:12 AM
1977 US spec 6.9 with floor shift auto.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 07 February 2016, 03:51 AM
Updated stats.
Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek (1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2), cmanson (1), arcijack (2), daantjie (1)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 07 February 2016, 08:39 AM
Would the number till now show the column shift 280SEL (0) is the rarest one around, followed by he 350SEL column shifter (1)?
Maybe this was to be expected considering both cars are already built in the lowest numbers.
Must be sweet to own a 280SEL Column shifter, haha!

Still, the goal was to find out what the ratios are when it comes to all transmission types. Onwards to 100..
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 07 February 2016, 10:04 AM
Looks like column shift get discussed every few years around here.

http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/column-shift/

check out the fender flags also!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: dima on 14 February 2016, 05:35 AM
 НI! It looks like I'll be the black sheep in this list) 280S with 5 speed manual transmission
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 14 February 2016, 08:33 PM
Nice one, Dima! On top of that, yours is a sweet car with lush woodwork!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 19 February 2016, 04:01 PM
Updated stats.Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek (1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2), cmanson (1), arcijack (2), daantjie (1), Dima (1)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 22 February 2016, 01:43 PM
Perhaps you could add a column for total production numbers to give reference to?  A manual transmission in a 280SEL is much rarer than in a 280S or SE if you take into account production numbers.

Chassis code   Model Years   Model   Engine   No. built[5]
W116.020   1973–1980   280 S sedan   2.8 L M110 I6   122,848
W116.024   1973–1980   280 SE sedan   2.8 L M110 I6   150,593
W116.025   1974–1980   280 SEL sedan   2.8 L M110 I6   7,032
W116.028   1973–1980   350 SE sedan   3.5 L M116 V8   51,100
W116.029   1973–1980   350 SEL sedan   3.5 L M116 V8   4,266
W116.032   1973–1980   450 SE sedan   4.5 L M117 V8   41,604
W116.033   1973–1980   450 SEL sedan   4.5 L M117 V8   59,578
W116.036   1975–1980   450 SEL 6.9   6.9 L M100 V8   7,380
W116.120   1978–1980   300 SD sedan   3.0 L OM617 I5 turbodiesel
(USA and Canada only)   28,634
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 22 February 2016, 03:12 PM
Here we go, total production numbers included.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 03 March 2016, 08:13 PM
Guess this needed a bump!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Patrick on 10 March 2016, 10:42 PM
I own a '80 300sd automatic, floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 11 March 2016, 03:26 AM
We can also add that manual shift 1973 350SE from Poland, introduced yesterday.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Max-NL on 11 March 2016, 04:48 AM
We have a 1975 280S with column shift automatic, and a 1975 450SEL 6.9 with floor shift automatic.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Zaxxon on 11 March 2016, 11:10 AM
And here is a '78 450SEL with A/T on the floor.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 11 March 2016, 03:26 PM
1980 300SD automatic floor shift.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 11 March 2016, 08:59 PM
I am still confident we'll get to 100 entries, with some patience! ;D
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Alec300SD on 11 March 2016, 09:07 PM
1978 300SD automatic floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Greg on 14 March 2016, 01:16 PM
1977 280SE auto floor shift
Greg,
Pretoria South Africa
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 14 March 2016, 07:52 PM
Thank you, Greg!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Zahus on 15 March 2016, 02:28 AM
Hello Fellows,

I have 1973 350 SE with 4 speed manual gearbox

I have found a small mistake in your statistics:

W116.028   1973–1980   350 SE sedan   3.5 L M116 V8   51,100

Model 350 SE started to be produced and sold in 1972 !!! and production amount of 51 100 is covering period of 1972 - 1980.

I have 2 others MB from that period but not W116 of course. All are the same solid and fantastic. For daily driving I have my star No. 4 so 560 SEC - but she is only 26 years old :-) but many elements and technical solutions are from W116 - so many spare parts are the same.

Greetings Rafal
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 28 March 2016, 06:55 AM
He Gavin, where are we now? ::)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: 76116 on 28 March 2016, 12:13 PM
W116033120526636
1976 450SEL.  Centre Console Auto.
Astral Silver over blue leather.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 28 March 2016, 01:04 PM
Updated stats: Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek (1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2), cmanson (1), arcijack (2), daantjie (1), Dima (1), Patrick (1), unknown Polish (1), Max-NL (2), Zaxxon (1), Squiggle Dog (1), Alec300SD (1), Greg (1), Zahus (1), 76116 (1).
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: orientrot on 28 March 2016, 04:20 PM
I own a 1980 300SD automatic floor shift and a 1979 300SD automatic floor shift.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: pmark3100 on 28 March 2016, 06:15 PM
Goodness, I didn't even know this thread existed and got requested to post.

Mine is a 1980 300SD automatic with the console shifter.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 28 March 2016, 09:38 PM
And it's appreciated!
Onwards!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: nostat on 29 March 2016, 10:10 AM
   450 SEL automatic on thefloor
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: orientrot on 29 March 2016, 04:41 PM
Not a personal car but the guy that I got my euro bumpers from had a 350se 4-speed among his collection of ~10 w116 project and parts cars. Not sure of the year. I can get exact info on all of his cars when I am at his place next time if you would like.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 29 March 2016, 07:36 PM
To keep the data pure and somewhat scientific, rules state that only cars that are presently owned by .org members can be included in the poll.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: robparker on 30 March 2016, 02:14 AM
1978 450SEL 6.9 auto 3 on the floor!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ZCarFan on 30 March 2016, 05:30 AM
1978 280SE Automatic, floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 30 March 2016, 06:16 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 29 March 2016, 07:36 PM
To keep the data pure and somewhat scientific, rules state that only cars that are presently owned by .org members can be included in the poll.

Stan, any W116 counts.  The odds of there being a conversion are slim.  Furthermore, any and all types of prejudices/segregations are prohibited; even for scientific reasons, and even for non .org members.  Just because a W116 doesn't belong to a .org member doesn't mean it can't count.  This isn't the type of research that has to have such rules, and using non .org input won't make the data any less pure or less scientific to any measureable degree.  In the end, the results will only reflecet the input, and the input will produce a very large margin of error due to the fact that so many W116 cars are either missing, rusted away and crushed, or forgotten about somewhere. However, Anything that anybody reports  is of significance, and very welcomed.  It'll be nice to know what is still out there.  It's all for fun and furthering our knowledge. Have fun with it! 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 March 2016, 08:44 AM
No offense, but within that scope, we would have had 500 entries already. "I saw this, in that street", "I have a friend that.."
Sounds acceptable, but it's a slippery slope, all the way down to "I heard that he has a car that"
We kept it clean and tidy till now, no data pollution anyone can accuse us of, except the crazy odds that a -listed- privately owned car was indeed modified from manual to automatic. That's what allows us to keep a minimally, acceptable margin of error.
Let's keep it that way.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 31 March 2016, 02:56 AM
OK, but don't come crying when someone gets offended, or when a moderator deletes the thread altogether.  Fair warning....
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 31 March 2016, 06:04 AM
Pretty sure that's a rather unlikely risk. This is a polite forum, and there's no reason anyone would take offense taking part in a (wannabe-) scientific poll.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 06 April 2016, 10:44 AM
Are we going to find the last 24 entries?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: marku on 12 April 2016, 02:28 PM
450SE auto floor - is that it?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gf on 17 April 2016, 08:36 AM
Mines a 76 280se automatic
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: mottati on 24 May 2016, 01:11 PM
this past weekend i purchased my first w116

73 450SEL Column shifter automatic

(unfortunately someone converted it to a floor shifter, i intend to make it original if i can find the parts, has the column, but shift lever is gone, and i'm sure some linkage as well)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: midnitesunmerc on 24 May 2016, 01:29 PM
I have a '77 280SE with automatic/floor shifter and a '79 280SE Euro model parts car with same...
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 27 June 2016, 11:27 PM
Just a little bump, hoping the latest members here may add their car to this poll. We're nearly there!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Malaysian on 28 June 2016, 10:18 AM
All my 3 W116 are 4 speed MANUAL transmission.

1977 280se
1977 280se
1978 280s

Do u need the VINs?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 28 June 2016, 07:23 PM
No need for VIN's, be it that you are a Disturbance in the (statistical)Force, haha, with your -clearly- highly selective preference for 4-speed manuals.
Still, being able to track down and buy 3 of those manuals is remarkable, and should still count, I'd say!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Malaysian on 28 June 2016, 07:24 PM
Lol...re disturbance in the statistical force...
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Panzerwagen on 17 August 2016, 08:44 PM
W116
280S
1979
Auto trans
M110 engine
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: markb on 18 August 2016, 06:26 PM
1979 US 450SEL floor automatic, Engine 117.986
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: mrkozzy on 27 August 2016, 10:29 AM
Just read this post so here's my "contribution",  8)

1975  280 se (M110 motor) 4 speed floorshift auto

& count this one or not.......the 1973 280s Floorshift auto that I bought and sold on recently ( to a friend) 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 27 August 2016, 09:12 PM
Thanks so much!

Now.. anybody knows where Gavin has gone?
He was doing such a lovely job with his oversights..
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: spoonified on 28 August 2016, 10:22 AM
I have a 74' 450SE US Spec with a column shifter, a 75' euro spec 450SE with a floor shifter, and a 77' 6.9 Euro spec with a floor shifter.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Will on 30 August 2016, 04:20 PM
Hi, I have a UK version 450SEL,  auto with shifter on the floor
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 August 2016, 07:00 PM
97 entries already.
Who's gonna make it 100?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 10 September 2016, 04:28 AM
Updated stats: Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek (1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2), cmanson (1), arcijack (2), daantjie (1), Dima (1), Patrick (1), unknown Polish (1), Max-NL (2), Zaxxon (1), Squiggle Dog (1), Alec300SD (1), Greg (1), Zahus (1), 76116 (1), orientrot (2), pmark3100 (1), nostat (1), robparker (1), ZCarFan (1), marku (1), gf (1), mottati (1), midnitemerc (2), Malaysian (3), Panzerwagen (1), markb (1), mrkozzy (1), spoonified (3), will (1).
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 10 September 2016, 11:30 PM
Nice to hear from you again, Gavin. Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 11 September 2016, 01:25 PM
In the context of stats, there's an ad on eBay for a '93 "Oldtimer Markt" edition with a few pages of W116 "buyers guide", which has an inset with the number of W116s registered in Germany at the time:

Total: 49883

- 280S: 10958
- 280SE/SEL: 26960
- 350 SE/SEL: 6844
- 450 SE/SEL: 4643
- 450 SEL 6.9: 478

That's ~10% of the entire production run. Not bad for a then, at least, 13 year old luxury limousine.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 11 September 2016, 05:56 PM
so, in 1993, 10% of all W116 ever produced were on the road in Germany?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 12 September 2016, 03:29 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 11 September 2016, 05:56 PM
so, in 1993, 10% of all W116 ever produced were on the road in Germany?

Registered for sure, but if on the road that's another story.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 01 October 2016, 03:51 AM
Another 2 entries.. my own cars, recently purchased:

450 6.9, floor-automatic
280SEL, floor automatic

That makes 99.
Can we have 1 more entry?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 01 October 2016, 01:28 PM
I'm working on a customers 1974 450se at the moment. (he is the owner)  It's a column shift automatic. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 01 October 2016, 04:26 PM
Oops, double post.
::)
See below.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 01 October 2016, 04:27 PM
Quote from: gavin116 on 01 October 2016, 04:26 PM
Updated stats: Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek (1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2), cmanson (1), arcijack (2), daantjie (1), Dima (1), Patrick (1), unknown Polish (1), Max-NL (2), Zaxxon (1), Squiggle Dog (1), Alec300SD (1), Greg (1), Zahus (1), 76116 (1), orientrot (2), pmark3100 (1), nostat (1), robparker (1), ZCarFan (1), marku (1), gf (1), mottati (1), midnitemerc (2), Malaysian (3), Panzerwagen (1), markb (1), mrkozzy (1), spoonified (3), will (1), Floyd111 (2 additional), UTn_boy ( customer's car).
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: mottati on 17 November 2016, 06:23 PM
so i've got the only column shift 450sel in the survey!

Are they that rare? (i'd never seen one before i bought mine)
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 28 November 2016, 11:50 PM
Yes, that seems to be the case. All column shifters are rare, for that matter, even more so in a 280SEL.

One thing has me a bit worried though, when it comes to this list.
I check the German sites daily, and for quite some time now, the percentage of 350SE's that are offered for sale is quite staggering, with many of them in manual shift.
Now, either 350" parts are hard to come by and people are dumping them in higher numbers then other models, or Germany has always had a particular preference for 350's in manual.
Third option.. our Forum members are not equally spread globally and for some reason the 450's were shipped to the America's in much greater numbers.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 29 November 2016, 08:10 AM
The majority of W116 cars were shipped to North America, at least the 450 models.  I think Europeans have always drifted towards favoring standard shifts because the automatic option was more expensive to the Europeans than it was for the North Americans.  That's what the price lists state, anyway.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 29 November 2016, 06:52 PM
sure, plus it's a cultural thing. Automatics were never a European choice for the masses.
May also have something to do with the fact those only work properly in large, heavy cars.

But all of this leaves the question why it's raining 350's on the German second hand market for about a year now.
This was ebay Klein, (not even a special car selling site) from the 24th till today:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/mercedes-benz-350-se-w116-rostfrei-1-hand-schaltgetr-/563246637-216-7581
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/mercedes-benz-350-se-w116-h-kenzeichen/562704261-216-2575
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/schlachte-w116-350se-v8-schlachtfest-schlachtung-motor-getriebe/562362470-223-1461
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/mb-350-sel-w-116-1-hand-scheckheft-h-kennz-original-brief/560549394-216-3811

The same week there was 1x450" and 3x280" Odd, isn't it?

Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 30 November 2016, 02:37 AM
I dunno, Stan.  Your guess is as good as mine.  Maybe people are realizing that their W116 that they got such a good deal on is nearly impossible to restore without deep pockets and/or a slew of NOS parts, or maybe people are getting tired of Mercedes Benz's price gouging on parts?  May they're being taxed so badly to operate one that it's not worth keeping?  Just guessing here. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 30 November 2016, 03:58 AM
Maybe it's the lower end of the market, with fat chance of getting the historical registration (H-zulassung) and therefore getting banned from driving in increasingly larger areas because of emissions?

Or the bubble is about to burst and people are dumping their "awesome investment" to cut losses?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 November 2016, 07:58 AM
Maybe Thomas has  an idea?
I could imagine that, with the famous Autobahn in Germany being off-limits to anyone slower than 200KM/h (unless with a death-wish), maybe the 280" never sold well there? Did the bulk of the 350's ever sold go to the German clientele, in order for them to be able to switch lanes without life insurance?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: ptashek on 30 November 2016, 01:39 PM
LOL, you can drive the Autobahn safely well below 200km/h. Actually the suggested speed is 130km/h, anything above that and your guilt is asserted in any incident, regardless if that's actually the case. Also, it seems the number of derestricted sections has been dropping in recent years.

Also, driving a W116 at top speed gets expensive quick. At 220km/h (GPS confirmed) Goldie was sucking fuel like a thirsty camel... somewhere around 35l/100km.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 01 December 2016, 12:24 AM
ooooh my! 1 in 3!! :o

Mind you, fuel is cheap these days, haha!
I grew up on the German border, so I have been doing those autobahns most of my life.
I wasn't kidding when I said that a regular family hatchback will get you killed way too easily.
Some of the highway entries are so terribly short, you'll need to be at 130-140 in a whiff, or something might slam into your back on the slow lane when you show up there.
I was still in the little league back then, with my 732i BMW driving at full force..
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: NewGuy on 04 December 2016, 12:23 PM
1978 450 sel automatic on the floor
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 14 March 2017, 09:33 AM
There have been quite a few new members since the last time this post was updated.
You guys care to add your cars here?
What's your engine, and what type of transmission does it have?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: dinizzxa on 06 January 2018, 03:08 PM
280se auto'77
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 06 January 2018, 05:52 PM
Quote from: dinizzxa on 06 January 2018, 03:08 PM
280se auto'77
Floor shift or column shift?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: stillmatic on 30 May 2018, 10:02 AM
1980 280SE auto floor shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 May 2018, 06:21 PM
ah, we have a NAS fan.!
Your car really built in 1980, or just sold in 1980, built in 1979?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: stillmatic on 31 May 2018, 04:01 AM
yep, Nas fan here :)

I've got 28.02.80 on the registration papers, how can I check the build date? The VIN is 116024-12-083105.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 31 May 2018, 08:08 AM
150,593 280se's sold by 1980. Shouldn't the VIN be near 150000, rather than 083105?
Is that how it works?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: Pete49 on 31 May 2018, 08:37 AM
1978 450 SEL auto floorshift.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: stillmatic on 31 May 2018, 08:55 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 31 May 2018, 08:08 AM
150,593 280se's sold by 1980. Shouldn't the VIN be near 150000, rather than 083105?
Is that how it works?

Entirely possible, the car was imported from Germany to Spain as new in March 1980 and is registered here with a manufactured date of February 1980 but who knows how long it's been sitting around at the dealer.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 31 May 2018, 04:25 PM
At the risk of talking crap (anyone, please chime in), looking by production number, your car would be a 1976/77. No way it's been sitting at the dealer's for 4 years.. Something must be up here,  or am I missing something?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: stillmatic on 31 May 2018, 05:35 PM
Intriguing and not entirely impossible! As mentioned, the only relevant doc I have is the Spanish registration where it's just the import date. How can I dig deeper, what's a good place to start?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 31 May 2018, 07:12 PM
The production date is on the build card.  If you dont have yours you can get from the Classic Center.

Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: stillmatic on 01 June 2018, 04:09 AM
Thanks Rumb, how can I get this from the Classic Center? Should I contact a local MB dealership here or can I do this online? It's not immediately apparent how and where to apply for a data card if I google MB Classic Center. Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks!
Title: Classic Center in Fellbach
Post by: rumb on 02 June 2018, 04:34 PM
You will need the Classic Center in Fellbach.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mercedes-benz/classic/classic-service-parts/mercedes-benz-classic-service-parts/

phone number and email on that page.

BTW trick question.  what is incorrect about the big billboard on the building at the top of that page?



Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 02 June 2018, 06:13 PM
eeeh.. wild guess. The original was a LWD :P
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 05 June 2018, 08:24 PM
They had to reverse the image, because the environmental board would not let them cut the tree down.  with the image reversed the engine exhaust now shows.  what you see as the left side of the car is really the right side.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: celberg on 30 July 2018, 03:24 PM
'73 350SL column shift
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 July 2018, 10:43 PM
I presume you mean 350SEL?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: celberg on 30 September 2018, 08:15 AM
Sorry, '75 350 SE...
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 30 September 2018, 10:00 PM
Where's Gavin? Would be great if he could do an updated oversight like before! :D
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: gavin116 on 16 October 2018, 09:10 AM
Updated stats: Floyd111 (3), UTn_boy (3), gavin116 (1), Beastie (1), ptashek (1), Guillaume (15), w116john (1), Casey (eight), beagle2022 (1), Pieter Lötter (1), s class (10), ronw123w124 (1), karmann_20V (2), Jed (3), tcj (2), rumb (2), Peter (1), OneOneSix (2), littlefin (1), revilla (2), cmanson (1), arcijack (2), daantjie (1), Dima (1), Patrick (1), unknown Polish (1), Max-NL (2), Zaxxon (1), Squiggle Dog (1), Alec300SD (1), Greg (1), Zahus (1), 76116 (1), orientrot (2), pmark3100 (1), nostat (1), robparker (1), ZCarFan (1), marku (1), gf (1), mottati (1), midnitemerc (2), Malaysian (3), Panzerwagen (1), markb (1), mrkozzy (1), spoonified (3), will (1), Floyd111 (2 additional), UTn_boy ( customer's car), NewGuy (1), dinizzxa (1), stigmatic (1), Pete49 (1), celberg (1), Guru (1) via a PM.

Edit: Had to redo the spreadsheet as I discovered some errors in my excel formulas.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: irastock on 22 October 2018, 12:43 PM
I'm fairly new to the forum. I have a 1979 300SD (built in 1978) with automatic on the floor.
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 07 July 2020, 06:03 PM
I was just looking for the answer to a rather reasonable question, that was not answered in this poll: What type of automatic gearboxes were present, as in" 3-speed or 4 speed automatics? is it true that indeed ALL the automatic V8's were 3-speeds, including the 350? And that only the 6cyl had the option to choose 3 or 4 speed auto?
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 07 July 2020, 06:07 PM
I just looked this up a few hours ago. Look at the chart near the bottom of the page.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W116
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: floyd111 on 07 July 2020, 06:24 PM
Right! I knew I had seen this chart before somewhere.. Thanks!
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 17 March 2023, 12:37 PM
Latest Star Magazine just came out with article about W116 50 year anniversary. They also feature a icon gold 1972 450SEL. They state the original buyer ordered before they were even off the assy line. He ordered with column shift and they sent him a floor shift so he made them make an entire new car the way he wanted.  They claim Mercedes stated back to him that his car would be the last column shift w116 they produced and that they would remove that option from the order sheets.

Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: UTn_boy on 19 March 2023, 06:04 AM
THEY LIED.   THere are MANY 450sel models in the late 70's that have column shift transmissions. 
Title: Re: question for statistical maniacs
Post by: rumb on 19 March 2023, 08:22 AM
The fellow also had a stack of correspondence 15" thick. Must of been a PITA.

The new owners must like telling that story/ fairytale.