Author Topic: question for statistical maniacs  (Read 23680 times)

floyd111

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question for statistical maniacs
« on: 19 January 2016, 10:37 PM »
How many manual-transmission cars were built in 280SEL and 350SEL?

UTn_boy

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #1 on: 20 January 2016, 01:48 AM »
Even though Mercedes noted on the build sheet and/or data card that the car was a standard shift or not, I don't think that they kept up with how many were standard shift....or automatic, for that matter.  Then again, they may have and we just don't know it. 
1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

ptashek

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #2 on: 20 January 2016, 01:56 AM »
According to http://wiki.mercedes-benz-classic.com/index.php/Kategorie:W116/en manual transmission was the standard on 280/350 SE/SEL, until about 1977, when auto became the default. I have seen very few manuals for sale in European markets, and I scour the web regularly to keep track. I'd say they're as rare as the column shift auto versions.

I've asked folks in the MB Museum and the Classic Centre if they kept any records on detailed model breakdown, and the answer was along the lines of "not beyond model designation", and that data is already public.

p.s.: Here's a sample from AutoScout24: http://goo.gl/6XKufz
« Last Edit: 20 January 2016, 12:32 PM by ptashek »
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)

UTn_boy

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #3 on: 20 January 2016, 03:58 PM »
If standard shift was the standard transmission up until 1977, then how is it rare?  That means that over 50% of the 473,035 W116 chassis that were made came out of the factory with a standard transmission.  Rare in the automotive world is considered as being plus or minus 500 units having originally been made and/or that still exist.  I find it hard to believe that there are less than 500 W116 standard transmissions left in the world.  Just my two cents worth. 
1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

floyd111

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #4 on: 20 January 2016, 04:35 PM »
I think he was saying Wiki has strange data to add to this matter..

ptashek

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #5 on: 20 January 2016, 05:08 PM »
If standard shift was the standard transmission up until 1977, then how is it rare?  That means that over 50% of the 473,035 W116 chassis that were made came out of the factory with a standard transmission.  Rare in the automotive world is considered as being plus or minus 500 units having originally been made and/or that still exist.  I find it hard to believe that there are less than 500 W116 standard transmissions left in the world.  Just my two cents worth.

Manual was only ever offered on the 280 and 350 models, never on 450s, the 6.9 or 300SD.
So that's only 335839 units in total. I don't think 50% of those would have been manual at any rate. Based on current market supply, there's simply no support for it being such a large proportion.
Since there's no breakdown data, we'll never really know if it was 500, 5000 or 250000. I'd love to know though :)
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)

floyd111

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #6 on: 20 January 2016, 05:30 PM »
Well, statistically speaking, we would be able to get to a final percentage with a tiny margin of error, if we had a poll in the forum, with 250-500 partakers. We would already have achieved essential data, with a margin of error of 4-5%.
Nobody should add data of "people I know" or "cars I have seen", nor "Cars previously owned" Those are polluting stats.
Only "cars presently owned" by members should be listed, then it would work.
This would be me:

Manual 0
Auto    3

UTn_boy

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #7 on: 20 January 2016, 07:40 PM »
If standard shift was the standard transmission up until 1977, then how is it rare?  That means that over 50% of the 473,035 W116 chassis that were made came out of the factory with a standard transmission.  Rare in the automotive world is considered as being plus or minus 500 units having originally been made and/or that still exist.  I find it hard to believe that there are less than 500 W116 standard transmissions left in the world.  Just my two cents worth.

Manual was only ever offered on the 280 and 350 models, never on 450s, the 6.9 or 300SD.
So that's only 335839 units in total.


And the 280 and 350 models were the most plentiful.  Therefore, There are probably still many of them out there.  Just be cautious of how the word "rare" is used.  Ironically, I've seen more standard shift W116 cars here in the U.S. than I've seen anywhere else. 

A 4.5% margin of error isn't a bad margin of error at all.  Of the three that I currently own, two of them are automatics, and the parts car, a 280sel, is standard shift. 
1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

floyd111

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #8 on: 20 January 2016, 10:12 PM »
That would now be

Manual 1
Auto    5

UTn_boy

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #9 on: 21 January 2016, 12:11 AM »
come on all of you fellas!  Chime in!  Doesn't matter if the car is a trailer queen or a parts car.  we need some numbers! 
1966 250se coupe`, black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3, papyrus white/dark red leather
1973 300sel 4.5, silver blue metallic/blue leather
1976 280s astral silver/blue MB Tex
1978 450sel 6.9 Euro, Anthr/velour

gavin116

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #10 on: 21 January 2016, 12:34 AM »
Hi Stan


I think it would be more helpful to post a picture of the data build plate (for those who don't know, it's the plate on the front slam panel with raised numbers painted in body colour).  This way we can see how many manuals vs automatics, how may LHD vs RHD, what colours were the most popular, what options were popular etcetera, and a whole load of other information besides.


Not sure if your poll is only for types 280 and 350, as we already know types 300, 450 and 6.9 were only available with auto transmission.

w116john

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #11 on: 21 January 2016, 01:02 AM »
hi all

not scientific in any way but an observation from years of looking at auto sites, the manual trans appeared to be popular in Italy.

often times when  i see one on mobile.de from Italy its a manual 280, i wonder what they are like to drive?

john

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #12 on: 21 January 2016, 01:19 AM »
There's only a few dozen or so regular posters here so I don't think you'll get anywhere near enough numbers but for what it's worth my car is an automatic.
1979 280SEL

"She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro."

ptashek

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #13 on: 21 January 2016, 03:55 AM »
Both of mine, are/were auto, floor shift.
I know at least one other Irish member (Type17) has a floor shift auto 350 as well.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)

Guillaume C

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Re: question for statistical maniacs
« Reply #14 on: 21 January 2016, 04:33 AM »
According to some MB brochures about automatic transmission :

61% of 1976 280S and 86% of 1976 350SE have automatic transmission.

82% of 1979 280SE have automatic transmission.