New sound system

[motec6.9]

Hi Mark i posted this Alpine link for you at the start of this thread. Geoff

[oversize]

Yeah but it was buried with all the others!!  LOL!   

[powerglide]

The problem for a W116 is speakers - you're wasting money if you don't put some thought into the speakers.  I drove myself nuts with this until I realised what Tony66 found - a really good pair of 4-inch speakers in the front are what you need (I have Pioneers in now, but I just had my wonderful dual (paper) cone Sansui speakers rebuilt, and they will be going in the 280SE.  Tony's also right about the ambient noise level in the W116: if you want the best sound on wheels dirt cheap, buy yourself a W140 with the killer Bose/Eurovox system that model came with. 

With the W116, almost any quality head unit will do the job - providing you get the speakers right.  Guys are reluctant to cut them into the door trim or the kick panels, and I agree, especially as that is a dumb place to put them anyway: you listen with your ears, not your toes!  Either side of the dash is good, just like MB intended, then you need a pair on the rear shelf.  The only units that will mount properly there are 5 1/2 inch with - wait for it - just 3 mounting holes!  There is also an issue with depth of the rebate in the steel shelf, which is too small for some speaker mangnets. You can of course drill 4 holes, or the alternative is to make up a pair of adapters from sheet aluminium (a couple of old saucepan bottoms are perfect).  What you see in most cars is the rear speakers simply fixed to the parcel shelf board, and this does not give the best results - better to install a pair of purpose-designed surface-mount speakers.  I have found that high-quality dual-cone speakers (eg, Pioneer, Sansui) will fit in a tight spot because they don't use such a big magnet as 2 and 3 way designs, and will sound better properly mounted than a 3-way will sound mounted on the shelf board.

[Tony66_au]

Rear parcel shelves create issues because of the materials involved so im going to use Surface mount "Pods" either bought or cut out of 32mm MDF which will create a shallow speakerbox.

The thing with MDF is you can spray it with primer surfacer or spray putty, sand it smooth and then paint it whatever color you want and if you want deeper for a set or 6 or 8 inch 3ways than you can screw 2 pods together to make a deeper pod and even tilt the buggers towards the front is you have a bandsaw to slice one of the pods into a wedge shape.

And MDF's a very dense composite board and ideal for car sound applications.

[TJ 450]

Luckily, the standard locations up front are quite reasonable for sound quality if you have good drivers in there. Having the right speaker directly in front of you is good in some ways, but if any sound is panned to the right in the recording then obviously it is still right in front of you, which is rather limiting.

Still, it's pretty bloody good considering, and a nice spacious sound field can be created with a bit of attention to detail with regards to speakers and wiring.

Tim

[Tony66_au]

And you can always get A pillar mounted piezo's to lift the range a bit with active crossovers.

[oversize]

Low sound frequencies aren't directional, so larger speakers (woofers) are generally mounted low where there's more room.  And that's why subwoofers can be mounted almost anywhere and still be heard.  If you want clear sound, you need tweeters mounted up high towards ear level.  For the front channels I intend to use 'splits' which direct all high frequencies to separate tweeters which I'll mount on the A pillars.  I may even try to find a RHD dash with speaker grills in the top (if they were ever available).  Low frequencies are directed to woofers mounted in the doors, kickpanels or front of the dashboard in the original location (but this limits woofer size).  In the rear I'll go for some 6x9" speakers on the parcel shelf, mounted in low, angled enclosures as previously suggested.  And when I find some more cash I'll mount a sub in the boot in its own enclosure.

I agree that you should use quality connectors and wire.  A reliable 12V supply is essential and you should take the time to mount all speakers securely.  There's nothing worse than a loose speaker buzzing at high volume, or worse still wearing one to the back of the head in the event of a collision!   

Geoff is the expert regarding sound systems and I'm sure he has heaps more to add...  Plus he has pix of his impressive system already installed in his car.

[TJ 450]

Indeed, the a pillar is the recommended location for tweeters, angled towards the centre point of the car generally, but you can play around with that for optimal imaging.

Then for midwoofers, the bottom front corner of the door generally.

That's in an ideal world though, where we're not concerned about cutting door trims and so on.

4" component sets are what we need, and I just happened to buy a set this afternoon. 

Soundstream SPC.4

I'll experiment with tweeter mounting positions in due course.

Tim

[Tony66_au]

remember its not loud enough till your kidneys are pulped and your ears are bleeding...........

[oversize]

One thing often overlooked is the fact that speakers need to be run-in!!!  My old Blaupunkt system sounded bad at high levels (distortion) until I'd used it for a few weeks.  I ran my B&W speakers at low levels for days (non-stop) before I started turning up the volume.  I'd take a guess that the drivers have to be stretched carefully into their 'running' position before exploring their limits...

[Tony66_au]

Makes sense Mark, the mechanical component of speakers is the core and windings sliding in and out of the magnet like a magnetically driven piston so if the thing has an excess of knacker lacquer it would take time to smooth out.

[motec6.9]

Hi Mark and TJ as i said before i used to play around with car stereo gear . Here is a trophy from Summernats 6     And what is currently in my car 1200watts       . I will probably update all this when i am painting the car . Geoff 

[TJ 450]

Motec,

That's a good tweeter location (as expected)!

I have found the ideal position with 4" midbass in the stock location to be on the flat area of the knee bolster panel just where the air duct meets the doors... yes, it pulls the stage down, but it sounds excellent, and there's no glass nearby to wreak havoc. So in other words, just to the right of your midbass in the front there Motec. I used double sided tape, but that wouldn't work when the panel is carpeted.

Yes, running in is very important. A lot of speakers can sound pretty terrible prior to breaking in too. The same goes with turntables/cartridges/styli if you're into vinyl.

Tim

[motec6.9]

Hi TJ i have allways wanted to try a pair of these USD Horns after hearing them fitted to a 62 Chev Impala at the Summernats http://www.usdaudio.com/products/wg-supera.php  the car was a SQ car owned by Clarion Australia it also had a Hx-D2 head unit http://www.clarion.com/au/en/products/2012/audio/source_unit/1din/HX-D2/au-en-product-pf_1259617389172.html  and McIntosh amplifiers which Clarion were the agents at the time for http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductListingHorizontal.aspx?CatId=caraudio  . I cannot remember who made the subs but it was to this day the best sounding car i have ever sat it to listen to war of the worlds  .Geoff Ps as stated i competed in the Australian car Audio Nationals in all eastern states for about 5 years . Car system put together and tunned by bdl in Canberra http://www.bdlcarstereo.com.au/  my system was put together by Patrick foley . I may fit these for my front stage when completing my car 

[powerglide]

Putting a new head unit in the 350SE has led me to consider DAB+, so I appreciate this discussion. I'll save my period-correct Pioneer component system(AM/FM/cassette) for the 280SE ('The Timecapsule'), as the look is correct (it came with the original Mitsubishi 'wonderbar' AM-only radio, and really good Pioneer speakers that I can't improve on.  That post on fitting an output socket on the faceplate of a Becker Mexico has me thinking about doing the same with the Pioneer unit. But I am still thinking about the discussion on DAB+ ...  ("Listen up, PG, this is only a W116, not a W140, so just accept that medium-fi is about the best you will get")