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I'm restoring my 450SEL

Started by James R, 29 November 2006, 11:57 AM

James R

Hello all. Please welcome a newbie !

I have just bought a 450 SEL from someone on E-bay and am now about to set about restoring it. It is a 1979 model with 87k miles and a full service history. Needs a LOT of work.

I am getting John Haynes Auto Technics to do the work in Sussex (UK). Has anyone used them ? They seem like a top quality organisation but I would be interested in anyone's experience of them.

Getting the underside of the car done first. Sills etc.

James
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

oscar

Hi James and welcome,

Sounds like your attacking rust, true?  What else needs to be done to the body/engine? Just curious, certainly sounds like a low mileage 116, it will be interesting to see how you progress with it. Good luck!
1973 350SE, my first & fave

James R

Sadly, given the rain over here (bloody hell its been raining recently), its rust I'm battling. The engine is in pretty good nick as are the rest of the mechanicals - by no means perfect but nothing that can't wait (ditto the interior). As for the bodywork, pretty much every panel needs attention as well as remedial action for work that has been done before but badly e.g the jack will not fit the jacking points as the welding has been done so badly.

So, I'm starting with the underside of the car and working up. I'm also buying 5 litres of paint ready for the respray in a year or so - I am told that solvent paint over in UK will no longer be allowed from 1st Jan 07 and that water paint is not as good in terms of stone chips etc.

I think its going to cost a lot but actually given I practically paid zip for the car, at the moment I am adding value to it. I have no doubt that there will come a time when the cost of the work done will exceed its value but that's no different to a more modern car depreciating and at least I'll have something distinctive and bespoke. What fun !
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

adamb

Hi James,

Congrats on your purchase and best of luck with your project. Incidentally, why did you decide to do this on a 450SEL and not a 6.9? A time will come when I will be repainting my 6.9 from classic white to something a bit more bling. Next project is replacement of front suspension spheres. They've got noticeably worse over the 5 years that I've owned mine.

Cheers,
Adam
(6.9 in London)

s class

James,

Welcome to the group.  We wish you well with your project.  I have had a lot of spray painting experience, and I read your post about storing the paint for a year with interest.  I wasn't aware that solvent based paints will be discontinued, and it is concerning.  I use the Standox system (2 pack) and I assure you it is more durable than water based.  Paint manufacturers will strongly advise against storing paints for so long, but my personal experience is that you should be OK as long as the containers remain properly sealed and stored in a dry, cool place.  You may want to go to the lengths of storing the paint in a cupboard with some dessicants if the UK is so wet.  Remember though that you will need to stockpile all the required components - there's more to painting than just paint.  At the least you will want etch primer, plus its reducer, MS (medium solid) or HS (high solid) primer plus its reducer and catalyst, and then if it is a solid colour, the paint plus its reducer and catalyst, or for metallic you want the basecoat plus its reducer, and the clearcoat plus its reducer and catalyst.  You really need to buy all these things from the same manufacturer to ensure compatable chemistry.  Bear in mind that the catalysts are the least "storage happy" components of the system. 

I would suggest you discuss your intents with your bodyshop now, as they will also have their preferences for paint brands, primers and catalysts.  You need to realise that catalysts come in different "speeds" and the most suitable speed depends on temperature, spray pressure etc. 

If you don't have a bodyshop yet, get hold of a decent auto paint supply store and have a chat to them.  Try to confirm the situiation with outlawing of solvent paints.  Ideally you want to avoid storing paint if you can, but on the other hand you don't want to miss out.  The big paint manufacturers are obliged to encourage the sales of water based paint, so their literature and salespeople will probably be full of hype about it. 

From personal experience I can recommend Standox very highly.  Sikkens, Glasruit and Spies-Hecker are competing products that other people swear by. 

I recommend that you stick to one of these big "recognised" names and avoid the budget stuff which will have dodgy colour-fastness.

Ryan


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

James R

Wow ! Thanks for the advice about the paint. I got the impression from talking to the bodyshop (John Haynes) that for the dreaded health and safety reasons solvent based paint is being phased out w.e.f. 1/1/07. That said, and oddly, solvent based primer and lacquer will still be allowed. So, just to be on the safe side, I'm going to get the paint and then use it as quickly as I can afford to.

I decided to to all this to a non-6.9 450 for several reasons :-

> I couldn't afford (or more accurately wasn't allowed to spend) the money needed to get one.
> They very rarely come up for sale in the UK.
> I got my 450SEL for next to nothing and think its deserving of a rebuild.
> I wonder (feel free to shout in here) if there might be an opportunity to put a much more powerful engine in it one day...even more powerful and lighter than a 6.9.

James
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

alabbasi

Hey James.

Welcome to the group. I know of a guy in London who would put 450SEL engines into 500SEL's with blown engines. I'm certain it could be done the other way and the you would have a 450SEL with 240HP. If you can find an early 560SEL (with the k-jetronic injection) you'll get 300hp which is more then the 6.9 had.

It should be plenty quick with the engine it has, especially at highway overtaking speeds.

Good luck in the restoration and take lots of pictures.

With best regards

Al
Ex Londoner and restorer of a very rusty 6.9
Now living in Atlanta, GA, USA.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

James R

Wouldn't it be fun to put a 5.5 AMG engine in it from an SL55 ? God knows where I'd get one and how much it'd cost though.
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

s class

There was a very interesting website by a guy Satish Tumala who put a K-jet M119 500 engine from a 1990 or 1991 R129 500SL into a W126 SEC body.  Anybody know this site?  It was brilliant work, and resulted in a car with huge performance.  I will scratch around on Monday - I think I have the URL at work somewhere.  It gave a very detailed acount of some of the challenges encountered and the solutions. 

By the way, I have a W140 sedan with the M119 500 engine, and I can assure you that (when its running) it is super quick.  Although I haven't compared it side by side to a 560SEC, it gives the impression of more thrust off the line than the M117 560 engine.#

ON the other hand, the M117 450 engine you have is much cheaper to rebuild and run than either the M117 560 or the M119 500.  If you are bent on extra power, you may do well to turbochage the 450 engine - it is very tough, especially at the bottom end, and you may be able to lower the compression ratio easily using US-spec pistons or heads or both - I'm not clued up on this issue.

Ryan.


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

James R

Ryan,

Thanks for the post. I'd be interested to get the URL if you had a chance to dig it out. The place where I am having my car worked on has put a 5 litre engine in a W113 pagoda 280SL. It is mint and apparently goes like stink. It got me thinking. I'm not a total purist and think it'd be fun to have a lighter and faster engine in a restored 450 so that it is super quick. I think I'd want at least 300bhp.

James
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

alabbasi

With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

oscar

Holy cow that's one impressive transplant. You were spot on ryan. Thanks for the link Al.  I only read the first page then flicked thru the pics, I'm a bit short for time but I'll go back to read the full article.  Whilst not my favourite shaped 2 door, if I had this 126 coupe and did that much work to it myself, I think it would be the last car and only car I would ever own.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

Vad El

#12
Quote from: James R on 29 November 2006, 11:57 AM
I am getting John Haynes Auto Technics to do the work in Sussex (UK). Has anyone used them ? They seem like a top quality organisation but I would be interested in anyone's experience of them.
James

Hi, James. I'm newbie here too. (But I read w116-Yahoo-group for a loooong time)
I too restoring 450SEL '79. Though my w116 is much more complex for restoration, imho  ;)
Photos of process of restoration can be looked in my foto gallery. http://www.oldmerin.net/board/album_personal.php?user_id=345. Russian webpage and comments, sorry...

I have all official documentation on repair of this car, including the DataBook, full service manuals for chassis and engine, documentation for automatic transmission, etc.
If any specifications on the car or good advice will be necessary for you - I shall be glad to help.

Mercedes-Benz W116 450SEL '1979, armoured by Ernesto Pavesi S.p.a Milan Italia
Chrysler Crossfire "Limited" 3.2 Roadster '2006

James R

Yo Vad ! Thanks very much for the offer. Unfortunately, given my inability to speak any other language than English (yes, its appalling, I know), I couldn't find the pics on your website which is a shame.  ;)

All the best,

James
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

Vad El

So sorry. Wrong URL in previus message.
Fotos here... http://www.oldmerin.net/board/album_personal.php?user_id=345

RUST...many many RUST... espicially because it is armoured car, problem with water drain plus 25 years....

Doors before...



Doors after...



Car when arrive to me


Car after paintwork

Mercedes-Benz W116 450SEL '1979, armoured by Ernesto Pavesi S.p.a Milan Italia
Chrysler Crossfire "Limited" 3.2 Roadster '2006