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Euro Bumper Dilemma

Started by 500eguy, 13 January 2008, 01:28 AM

500eguy

Hello guys,  Today I removed my US bumpers and i am ready to mount the euro bumpers. I just have no idea how to mount them or where to mount them, the US versions have many diferent holes, anyone willing to shed light on this?

oscar

Hi 500

Take a look at my 350 without the bumpers and ignore the spoiler.  There's 6 bolts.  Three either side and are permanently attached to the cross member. 


http://forum.w116.org/shop/amg-front-spoiler/msg5736/#msg5736




You have these 6 bolts but with a bracket attached for the US bumpers. 
Have a look at Alabassi's photos further down his page to compare with US bumpers off. 5th and 6th photo down.  I think there must be nuts on the same bolts or other screws but take those brackets off that aren't visible on mine and you should be right.

http://www.alabbasi.net/450Phase9.htm





1973 350SE, my first & fave

koan

#2
There's a picture in the gallery that may help, it was posted by robertd to help me when I couldn't figure out how the brackets went back (it was obvious when I took them off where and which way they went but six months later...)

(click for full size image)

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

WGB

One very significant difference between Euro and US bumpers is that the large lower bumper is mounted independantly of the two smaller upper bumpers on the US spec.

The Euro one has the two smaller bumpers mounted onto the larger lower one and then the whole unit is mounted together via the 6 mounting studs and mounting brackets bolted to the rear of the bumpers. The upper smaller bumpers are not mounted to the body of the car at all.

Koan's illustration shows how the whole is connected to the iron-mongery behind particularly if you double click on the thumbnail to get the full sized pic.

Bill


oscar

That's true, but another assumption of mine is that the two upper bumpers on the US version would've connected to the upper holes in those brackets visible on alabassis 6.9. But I don't know where the third bolt is attached to on the sides.  Johnny can fill us in.  I assumed if those two brackets are gone, the Euro uppers and US uppers should be the same and attach directly to the lower Euro bumper.

However, I found a link that VadEl supplied to a Benzworld thread.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w116-s-se-sel-sd-class/1291183-installing-euro-bumpers.html

It seems it may not be as easy as I first thought it would be.  But then again, looking at Nutz's pics, and seeing how the ram of the US lower bumper has four bolts that go into that bracket, I'd still have a guess and say removal of those two brackets that are on alabassi's cross member would reveal the three bolts either side, (six all up) that stick out of my cross member.  The Upper bumpers (or over riders), Euro or US, would then bolt on to the Euro lower bumper, and the Euro bumper then goes onto the 6 bolts in my photo. 

You do have the ironwork pictured in Koan's post don't you 500eguy?  That's essential.

I'm guessing that the US design was developed as an add on with the aid of those two brackets, rather than changing the cross member completely.  Similarly, if I wanted to go US bumpers, I'd assume all I needed was those two brackets to make them fit??  Pure speculation, I just think the design criteria wouldn't have a involved a redesigned front end, just an add on to the existing hardware.  Thoughts? 




1973 350SE, my first & fave

500eguy

well, the front of my car has that bracket, i will remove that today and try to put on the euro bumper. So basically all i have to do is remove the us bracket and bolt in the euro front bumper right?  the rear looks like it needs the US holes filled in and the euro holes made, am i correct?

oscar

Quote from: 500eguy on 13 January 2008, 02:07 PM
So basically all i have to do is remove the us bracket and bolt in the euro front bumper right? 

That's my guess.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone that's mentioned the conversion come back and say they've done it and specifically how. 

The rears I've never removed but I'll take some pics of attachment points tonight.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

500eguy

thanks! i will take the the bracket off today and see what i come up with. I will take pictures of the rear and what it looks like.

alabbasi

Hey guys, the back bumper is pretty straight forward. All you have to do is drill the holes in the right places and bolt them in. For the front you either have to make brackets and weld them on (because it's totally different on the US cars) or you can cut the shocks and mount the bumpers on them like it's been done on mine.

The bumper will however sit about an inch lower and more forward then on a real Euro car. I would not do this conversion again but instead find a real Euro.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

500eguy

So will i have to take this part off?



my bumper has the all the mounting brackets. I am going to fill all the holes at the back of the car and just get the rears drilled. I am really confused about the front bumper install.

oscar

No, let me take some more pics and photoshop to highlight and I'll get back to you.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

koan


Just guessing but I'd have to agree with oscar, cutting off the extra metal work so it was just the front cross member as in Oscar's pic would probably reveal the holes for the 6 mounting studs, I don't think the studs are there as I can't see any in Alabama's picture, I would have thought the inner most stud would be visible.

I can't remember if the cross member is a box section, if it is, getting bolts through as the studs might not be possible.

(forgot to put "click me" on the thumbnail WGB, fixed now)

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

500eguy

ahhh, ok i am seeing things a little clearer now. where are the correct mounting holes located for the rear bumper?

oscar

#13
I agree koan.  Even though the brackets are deep and may hide the 6 mounting bolts, from that angle, I would've thought the outer two would've been visible. :-\

Anyhow, I've just used what I had on file for the following.

1st pic - A close up of alibassi's RHS.  
The bracket I speak of is highlighted in red. Not the whole cross member that you circled 500eguy.
There's one on either side and I assume held on by at least three nuts where the yellow arrows are.  
The yellow dots indicate where the US bumper hydraulic rams attach.

2nd pic - the 350
If you can remove those two mounting brackets, again, I assume you will see what my 350 has.  Circled in red are 6 bolts coming out of that cross member (3 either side) I'm guessing they correspond to the yellow arrows in the first pic.

A word about the cross members. I believe they are the same.  Unfortunately I don't have a naked shot of my 350 to the extent that alibassi's car has.  If I could take the same angled and stripped shot of the 350, the only difference between the two is the existence of the two brackets on the US version.  Both appear to have a "C" shaped purlin appearance and have the same spot welds, bends, cuts, shape etc.  

3rd pic
The last pic is Robertd's/koan's of the complete front euro assembly.  The 6 holes in the iron line up with the bolts highlighted on the 350.








EDIT:  i just had a look at some more of al's shots and clearly those three mounting studs per bracket are non existent.  Sorry about that.  But if you can cut the brackets out, you should be able to drill holes and put bolts in from behind.  Actually, two of the holes seem to be pre drilled.  It's a bit hard to tell if the middle one is because of that wiring and plug dangling down.

1973 350SE, my first & fave

koan

Quote from: 500eguy on 14 January 2008, 06:05 AM
ahhh, ok i am seeing things a little clearer now. where are the correct mounting holes located for the rear bumper?

Can't help you with that one, never removed the rear bar. I'll have to at some stage for rolling and re-chroming.

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!