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Garage => Interiors & Exteriors => Topic started by: rumb on 27 January 2016, 04:47 AM

Title: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 27 January 2016, 04:47 AM
Seems my car is missing the baffle plate 1168880238, do any of you with 6.9's have this on you car still? Research revealed that it was only used on 6.9's?

I noticed this looking at the car on BAT with this picture. it's the black part below the silver one.

The drawing in EPC doesnt look anything like that though.  #724

As it sticks down so far under the car, I imagine that most have been destroyed by parking blocks.

Anyone have an extra?

Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 27 January 2016, 05:26 AM
Rumb, that part is unique to the 6.9 as you suspect.  Though, you're looking the wrong place on EPC or looking under the wrong chassis.  Go under group 88, Frame number 1.  You'll see it.  If you're looking at a U.S. 6.9. it'll be call out number 84.  If you're looking at a European 6.9, then the call out will be number 148.

 The part number is 116-884-00-48.  It's still available for around $120. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 27 January 2016, 06:06 AM
that pn 116-884-00-48  is the metal filler on top of the bumper. Not the part I am mentioning.

This epc pict is used, I just grabbed from the web, I was too lazy to do a screen print of my own.

actually on grp 88 panel 3, #724 for 6.9 euro. the picture in EPC doesnt look much like the item in the photo.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 27 January 2016, 08:01 AM
I checked with the Classic Centre that part is officially NLA :'( I guess they ran out as this part is easily damaged.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 27 January 2016, 09:21 AM
I received this offer from a supplier, ready in waiting
A1168880238 Baffle Plate  300euro.
It may even be negotiable. Location France, and I am not involved, as usual.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 27 January 2016, 03:26 PM
I may have found a russian supplies with 16 available. $127 USD.

 Attempting to communicate with them....
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 27 January 2016, 06:59 PM
when last I did a search, a year ago, I found there were still some left in Greece as well.
Some MB dealer there, but emails dried up somehow, and I forgot to keep pushing.

Anyways, about these sump plates, bash plates. I have been looking at the data for quite some time, and do I understand it right that all W116 have 2 such plates available? 1 under the engine, and 1 under the radiator?

For 6.9, it would be 1168880238 in the front, and  11688400448 underneath
For all other W116, it would be 1168880238 in the front, and 11688400048 underneath.

Is this conclusion correct?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 27 January 2016, 07:14 PM
On the 6.9 the bash guard sits at the bottom  RHS to protect the dry sump hoses from getting damaged.
The plastic baffle that sits below the bottom valance I believe is not 6.9 specific. Just at the right level to get wiped out by curbs and such :o
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 27 January 2016, 07:37 PM
Both parts i speak of are steel protection plates. Not the thin-tin under-bumper-spoiler..
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: s class on 28 January 2016, 01:33 AM
There are several plates :

bash plate under sump (heavy steel) : for all non-6.9 models - seems fitment was market dependent
bash plate under sump (heavy steel) : modified version for 6.9's only

bash plate under radiator (thin steel (stainless??)) : can be fitted in conjunction with the main bash plate, or on its own.  Not sure if it can fit on a 6.9 - appears to be a fairly rare option, part of the 'africa package' spec.  I've only got one car with this.

protection plate for dry sump hoses : only for 6.9's, and appears to be standard on 6.9's

Plastic chin spoiler as per the first photo in this thread - very definately only a 6.9 item, and was originally standard on them, but they are often missing due to damage.  I imagine they would also fit onto non-6.9 models. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 10 February 2016, 03:49 AM
Here's a twist.  The russian baffle plates may be reproductions.

would any of you be interested if they were?

Still trying to get detailed photos.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Guillaume C on 10 February 2016, 05:32 AM
bash plate under radiator (thin steel (stainless??)) : can be fitted in conjunction with the main bash plate, or on its own.  Not sure if it can fit on a 6.9 - appears to be a fairly rare option, part of the 'africa package' spec.  I've only got one car with this.

This plate was fitted only on 1973/74 regular 450 SE/SEL (and maybe a few 1975 450 4.5).
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: s class on 10 February 2016, 05:34 AM
I have that radiator shield on my 1974 350SE. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 10 February 2016, 10:41 AM
Here's a twist.  The russian baffle plates may be reproductions.

would any of you be interested if they were?

Still trying to get detailed photos.

I would be interested in all forms of supply for these plates, Russians included.

S-Class, can you please list the number you got, connected to the different plates you describe? I listed several before. I would like to compare them.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Guillaume C on 10 February 2016, 12:50 PM
I have that radiator shield on my 1974 350SE.

Is it an automatic or a manual transmission ?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: s class on 10 February 2016, 11:15 PM
auto
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 25 February 2016, 09:54 PM
One for sale here:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/mercedes-w116-schutzblech-motor-protection-neu-116-520-00-42/430156274-223-1718
I took one as well.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 03 March 2016, 04:59 PM
So, did anyone figure out for sure what that initial part number was, that started the thread?
Uniquely 6.9, under the front skirt?
Was one found?
Can we have a pic?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 04 March 2016, 05:50 AM
1168880238 is the elusive "chin spoiler"


So, did anyone figure out for sure what that initial part number was, that started the thread?
Uniquely 6.9, under the front skirt?
Was one found?
Can we have a pic?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 04 March 2016, 08:19 AM
1168880238 is the elusive "chin spoiler"


So, did anyone figure out for sure what that initial part number was, that started the thread?
Uniquely 6.9, under the front skirt?
Was one found?
Can we have a pic?

Also NLA new from Benz.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 13 May 2016, 05:28 AM
1168880238 the elusive "chin spoiler"

Does anyone have one of these I can borrow to make 3D printed versions from?

My cousin has exhausted his russian search.  Seems the Ukrainian's dont trust anyone outside of their country.....
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 13 May 2016, 10:14 AM
Maybe one can be made by molding resin into a form?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 16 May 2016, 06:21 PM
Mine will be picked up for ocean transport this week, (together with a lot of other stuff) If you can wait 2 months, I can get you exact sizes and photos when it arrives here.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 18 May 2016, 06:02 AM
At this point that my best option. I was thinking there could be a rubber mould made to cast a few copies.

or use laser scanning to then make a 3d printed part.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 18 May 2016, 08:05 AM
I will surely investigate, once the part arrives here. Even VDH germany has given a blind shout out to anyone holding stock of this spoiler, or anyone capable of doing a reproduction. Guess there's a lot of takers out there, and I should be in the right country to do this most affordably
To be continued.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 18 May 2016, 10:18 AM
For sure there will be appetite for this part as it is just at the right height to get crapped out by barriers and such.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 17 September 2016, 03:31 PM
floyd, did your ship ever come in?  do you have one of these yet?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 17 September 2016, 06:19 PM
Rumb,
I'm still confused! do you mean the plastic lip spoiler?  these were available as of only about 3 years ago when we ordered a few.  you are right, those things are often smashed on the 6.9s due to aberrant curbs and people not waiting for suspension to power up before moving off!
not sure of current sources.
regards from the other hemisphere
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 17 September 2016, 06:52 PM
OK, with so many takers, and just 1 hot tip, I am just gonna post it here, and let fate decide..

My container is still 2 months away, but in the meantime I found another seller.
He's a Greek chap in Germany, and the type of guy with the most fragile of ego's. Paranoid, basically.
He's got a bunch of NOS parts at completely delusional pricing. Do not even speak about other parts. Do not complicate the conversation, payment of shipping suggestions in any way, or he will slam the door shut.
Never dealt with anyone that needed that much handling.. I walked, after 2 weeks of emails,  because I already have a "238" and it just wasn't worth the drama for me.
Find a credible way to explain how come you know about his existence. He was on ebay and/or ebay Klein 2 months ago, offering another part.
He's got the xxxx238 in NOS for 140 euros. It's the only good thing there, and he didn't know the real value. Everything else he sells is madness.
You may PM or email me. The first caller gets the email address. No seconds, because if this guy gets 2 mails in a week, he will reach for the Lithium right away. He only speaks Greek and broken German, btw. Good luck with that, haha!
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 18 September 2016, 01:24 AM
i just took this pic as i was shuffling the cars around at dads.  this is a used one intact and i couldnt find the part number on it. we have a new one lying around somewhere but couldn't find it amongst all the bits!
the plastic spoilers were 6.9 only and as pointed out, usually smashed to bits.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s211/nathan116/20160918_115522_zpslwg77pcc.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/nathan116/media/20160918_115522_zpslwg77pcc.jpg.html)

ps dont worry, thats on the bonnet of a parts 6.9, not a beauty!
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 18 September 2016, 04:02 AM
so, what's next?
I passed on the latest hot tip to the first caller. Lets's see what happens there.
My own spoiler is at least 2 months away. -Could be 3

If you want me to go find an extrusion company here to make copies, and you don't want to wait 3 months, you could send me your part, Nathan, and I'll do the rounds.
If not, backburner.. Up to you.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 18 September 2016, 04:46 AM
Cheers Floyd,
I dont personally need any.  As noted, they were available a few years ago, we bought 2 or three at the time.  What i have found is that you can be told a part is NLA, and then one week later things suddenly seem to turn up on their computer!  Im a bit reluctant to post bits as id get a bit sad i they went missing (a reflection of the postal service and not the receiver!).
Im sure some will turn up on eBay.  I will check for the other one and official part number to confirm.
regards
nathan
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 18 September 2016, 07:45 AM
Nathan,will you sell me one of them?

Floyd, please pm or email me the details of the mad greek.

Rumb

ps, whomever called floyd first, thanks, I have only been working on this thread for 9 months....
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 18 September 2016, 07:57 AM
floyd,  you know the guy in brazil that stiffed you on the refrigerator?  That's how I feel about you right now.  You know how much work I have put into finding this part.

 >:(
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 19 September 2016, 02:24 AM
No need..
This is just about getting this part reproduced. I got one coming in a container, and, with a bit of spit and grease, Thomas (first caller) will have one soon as well. Nathan has one too. That's 3 more than VDH Mercedes Germany could find.
In the end, this should become an accessible, affordable item.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 19 September 2016, 06:34 AM
Just saying, if someone starts a thread looking for a part and after nine months of pursuing it one is found , that person should have first call on the part.

I will follow up in 2-3 month to inquire about the remanufacturing of this part. That is unless someone offers me a part in the meanwhile. I always intended to 3d print or something more from the one that I will get someday. 

Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 19 September 2016, 06:50 AM
Forgive me if -in the end- after 9 months of multiple baffle threads, a hundred posts, 20 debate partakers and as many interested people, I did not recognize you as the first interested party anymore. It has no doubt become a forum-event by now.
That said, your reproduction offers/plans have not been forgotten, and my spoiler is still on it's way here, available if required for shipping and sampling. My offer to assist is just that. Assistance.
I have enough to do and gladly will let other people with more time handle all of this. My job description is well-outlined, and producing automotive pattern parts is not among them.

As far as the latest find goes, I would not pass this seller on to any friend or stranger, unless with explicit warning.
This is by no means a present, and surely a headache.
Also, the seller will not ship outside Germany.. another issue, on top of the very expensive -oversize mail- shipping fees that normally would have occurred.
You were not forgotten, Rumb. It's just a very slow process. Please stand by. I follow through and keep promises.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 19 September 2016, 05:48 PM
All  is well, we will survive.  ;)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 20 September 2016, 04:11 AM
Well, Thomas had no luck either. The guy's not selling it, claiming he doesn't have it. Guess he's prepared for the NSA to send stooges to get to his NOS parts.
I would keep my eye out on ebay Klein and ebay.de. Pretty sure it'll pop up. I have the feeling he might be eBay seller "Messalina", who is currently selling a W116 bumper corner for 750 euros(!!). Same number that my guy had on offer. -and Greek.
Still, I would be pretty sure he would never sell outside Germany, so you'd have to find a local to get it for you, when it's time.
In the meantime, click the "germany only" button when browsing ebay.de. Can't hurt.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 09 June 2017, 09:05 PM
Any updates on the unicorn chin spoiler gents?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 10 June 2017, 04:11 AM
Mine is finally on the move, as it was picked  up 2 weeks ago in Germany, after 12 months delay.
I expect (hahaha) it to arrive here in 4-6 weeks.
When it gets here I'll pass it on to my mate, who produces body panel parts for Porsche. Then we'll know more.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 11 June 2017, 08:30 AM
Mine is finally on the move, as it was picked  up 2 weeks ago in Germany, after 12 months delay.
I expect (hahaha) it to arrive here in 4-6 weeks.
When it gets here I'll pass it on to my mate, who produces body panel parts for Porsche. Then we'll know more.

Thanks Stan I'll take a couple for sure.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 12 June 2017, 07:01 AM
Heh Rumb,
sorry mate, I just realised you posted a question I missed a year ago!!
sorry, I'm a bit tardy! not really looking to sell. with our number of 6.9s, I'm a hoarder and not a seller sorry!
apologies again for being a useless bugger!
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 12 June 2017, 11:05 AM
If anyone is willing, I just want to borrow one with the intent of scanning and 3D printing them. willing to pay a deposit and all shipping.

rumb
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 22 August 2017, 01:55 PM
Talking to 3D printer about this part. expensive to scan and make.  Would be a substantial up front investment to order production quantities.

Would probably need to sell for $400-$450 each to make a small profit. Part would have to be post printing finished and painted to provide a good looking surface finish.

How many of you would be interested at this price?  What do you guys think would be to total quantity demand for this part over 3-5 years?


Thanks,
rumb
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 22 August 2017, 02:23 PM
That would be a bit too rich for my blood personally.
How about making a mold then pouring in resin type substance?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 22 August 2017, 04:31 PM
Let me unpack my freshly arrived pallets and show my baffle to the workshop boss, who is presently producing 911 body parts in carbon and glassfiber. He may know a solution as to how to keep prices down. That said.. it is 2017. Inflation has been a bastard over the last decade or 2. Rumb's 450usd for a custom-made part of that size is pretty much a price that can be expected, and good value for money. Even if I could beat that price..without molds and small mass-production, I would think it will be very hard to get to 350usd a piece.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 22 August 2017, 04:41 PM
Maybe so on the price but shipping will be a mofo on a piece this size. Not trying to get something for nothing of course but I would be surprised if folks clamour to fork out that kind of dough on a part so easily damaged. Just my 2c.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 23 August 2017, 05:53 AM
You guys are more into 6.9's then I am, so I am not sure about demand from that group. I would not suggest anyone enter that arena for profit. It's likely this baffle isn't going to be enough of a seller to allow for affordable production -and profit.
It could, however be a solution for fanatics. That specific part is a very visible one on a car, and NOS is beyond rare at this point. What else is left but to pay the piper?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: tcj on 23 August 2017, 06:10 AM
Hi Rumb,

I think the prices you got where so high that they are not acceptable for most 6.9 owners.
But I think it makes sense to search for other 3D printers as this should be possible for much
lower prices. Or wait until prices drop in the future.

Shipping costs could be reduced for this forum if all baffle plates for forum members in e.g. great britain are
sent in one package to one member and are forwarded locally.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 23 August 2017, 06:47 AM
Concerning determining selling price, what do you guys think is reasonable profit on investing @$5000 up front, plus @ 1-2 hours labor per part? plus coming up with suitable packing materials.  I do wish to provide this, but at some compensation for my investment.  I would  need to spend $800 in scanning and design work before they will even price the part for me. they say it  will take 15 hours to print each one.

A real business would be looking for 40-50 profit margin.  - I am willing to work for waaay less as I would like to be a service to the 6.9 community, but this is an unobtanium part that 70-80% of 6.9's are missing.

Or put another way, what would you be willing to spend?

The few originals that have been spotted were $3-400 I think. Stan is this correct?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: s class on 23 August 2017, 07:14 AM
3D printing is usually costed by the hour.  And a part that size will take a long time to print, I'm not surprised at the 15 hour estimate.  My experience with 3D printing is that it IS expensive for larger items.

Personally I would be surprised if you could get the price as low as 500US each. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: tcj on 23 August 2017, 07:31 AM
So it would make sense to produce it using spray casting ("Spritzgussmaschine") like the VDH has done it in china
to reproduce wire covers for the W108-W112 recently.

http://forum.mercedesclub.de/index.php/Thread/15903-Nachfertigung-Abdeckungen-Kunststoffleiste-W108-109-im-Kofferraum/?postID=132732#post132732 (http://forum.mercedesclub.de/index.php/Thread/15903-Nachfertigung-Abdeckungen-Kunststoffleiste-W108-109-im-Kofferraum/?postID=132732#post132732)

But you will need higher quantities to get the prices down.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 23 August 2017, 09:58 AM
So it would make sense to produce it using spray casting ("Spritzgussmaschine") like the VDH has done it in china
to reproduce wire covers for the W108-W112 recently.

http://forum.mercedesclub.de/index.php/Thread/15903-Nachfertigung-Abdeckungen-Kunststoffleiste-W108-109-im-Kofferraum/?postID=132732#post132732 (http://forum.mercedesclub.de/index.php/Thread/15903-Nachfertigung-Abdeckungen-Kunststoffleiste-W108-109-im-Kofferraum/?postID=132732#post132732)

But you will need higher quantities to get the prices down.

Looks like this fella missed out....I had these reproduced in late 2015/early 2016, along with a few other W108 parts that are NLA.  I gave up after the first batch due to no demand, and the ones that were interested bitched and complained about the $127 price for them.  I simply can't believe how stingy and greedy people are when it comes to a cars that they likely already have more in than they'll ever be worth. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 23 August 2017, 10:53 AM
Guys, not to belabor the point, but as always something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  I agree that if you have a truly mint specimen, or you have restored yours as Rumb has done, then of course dropping 500 bucks on that last piece to round off your resto is a no brainer.

For guys like me who are at the daily driver level, it simply does not make sense to drop 500 min plus shipping, plus duties etc. into Canada.  When all is said and done this will be almost 1K CAD for me, way too much, for me.  And truly, it is nice to have, but really, what function does this little piece of plastic REALLY have other than looking spiff?  Maybe I am missing the point, but to drop this kind of coin on a part that will surely get wiped out again does not make sense (or cents ;D) to me.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 23 August 2017, 11:27 AM
It seems like something that you could just put in a plaster mold (or something) and then mix up a 2-part plastic compound and pour inside the mold to create a new part? I wouldn't think that would be terribly expensive, but I'm not an expert on part production.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 23 August 2017, 03:01 PM
Thanks guys, I will be examining every alternative I can think of.

Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 23 August 2017, 04:41 PM

The few originals that have been spotted were $3-400 I think. Stan is this correct?

Not far from. I gotta think way back to remember exact details, and I think there were 3 instances over 3 years.
Paranoid eBayer Messalina was cheapest, with a 180 euro offer for a NOS, after which he first refused to export, then refused to sell nationally, then denied he had such a part at all.
I bought mine from the 2 Frenchies in Germany for 250 euros, no negotiation.
The first one I found was an eBay seller as well, think he was asking close to 300usd. Not sure what he ended up accepting. Too long ago, and quickly sold.

Shipping is really part of the problem here, if not properly solved. From my point of view in Taiwan, I would prefer not to buy from the USA, UK or Canada, if there would be a choice in the matter. All 3 postal services are well in the 3-digits for such a sized item. Germany and/or Australia would be better priced.
I am sure those pictures look different for someone living elsewhere. It's not easy to keep everyone happy.

I mentioned this before..Anyone thinking of producing this should at least talk to VDH. They have been asking specifically for this item for years. They may buy a batch of them if satisfied.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 24 August 2017, 10:28 AM
Guys, not to belabor the point, but as always something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  I agree that if you have a truly mint specimen, or you have restored yours as Rumb has done, then of course dropping 500 bucks on that last piece to round off your resto is a no brainer.

For guys like me who are at the daily driver level, it simply does not make sense to drop 500 min plus shipping, plus duties etc. into Canada.  When all is said and done this will be almost 1K CAD for me, way too much, for me.  And truly, it is nice to have, but really, what function does this little piece of plastic REALLY have other than looking spiff?  Maybe I am missing the point, but to drop this kind of coin on a part that will surely get wiped out again does not make sense (or cents ;D) to me.

...but only to that person.  Just because someone pays $500 for a part doesn't dictate the parts value as a whole around the world. 

Dropping $1,000 on a 6.9, as well as putting more into the cars than they'll ever be worth, is quite normal.  It's just how the game is played whether we can justify it or not.   
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: s class on 24 August 2017, 01:53 PM
I agree with UTn.   Further, if you are only willing to pay 300 for a part, that does not dictate that someone should be willing to make it for that, or even that is possible to make it for that.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 25 August 2017, 03:25 AM
Went to the workshop to open the pallets that arrived and to check for that baffle /spoiler. Someone misplaced it and it's gonna take the boss and a whole team of workers to go around and find it back among the countless boxes and shelves laden with other classic car parts. It's quite frustrating. Will be continued.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 25 August 2017, 08:07 AM
For what it's worth, I think a baffle plate is something that potentially all W116 owners could use as I think it will fit all W116s? That could bring the cost down, but then again, is it something most W116 owners would want, even if it was priced cheaply? I know I'd like one on my 300SD. I wish I had checked the 6.9s that I've found in wrecking yards for them. I think we can say that a solution for this issue is baffling.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 25 August 2017, 05:21 PM
yikes, this post just doesn't end! Squiggle, you are killing me - can we stop calling it a baffle plate. what the hell is a baffle plate! its a chin spoiler! :)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 25 August 2017, 06:19 PM
yikes, this post just doesn't end! Squiggle, you are killing me - can we stop calling it a baffle plate. what the hell is a baffle plate! its a chin spoiler! :)

Actually 116 888 0238 is called exactly that by Benz, a "baffle plate" ;D
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 25 August 2017, 07:56 PM
yikes, this post just doesn't end! Squiggle, you are killing me - can we stop calling it a baffle plate. what the hell is a baffle plate! its a chin spoiler! :)

Well, it IS the thread title and that's what people are calling it.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 26 August 2017, 07:33 AM
we could call it a Leitblende
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 26 August 2017, 05:05 PM
there are probably 17 of these things on eBay under 'chin spoiler', thats why you can't find them, as you re looking for 'baffle plate'! ;)
I'm thinking some of you northern hemisphere blokes have been snooping around down here,. I was cleaning out one of the sheds and whilst I found my intact original spare 'baffle plate', I couldn't find my new one yet! I'm thinking I'm going to see this thing soon on the black market!
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: TJ 450 on 27 August 2017, 02:45 AM
it's that time of year Nathan, I also just went bizerk cleaning up my garage as I was sick of losing things and having to climb over piles of junk constantly. Fingers crossed the new baffle plates appear, haha. They are also attached with speed nuts, I kid you not.

Tim
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 27 August 2017, 07:13 AM
Nathan,

Would you sell me your spare?

Also I find no w116 "chin spoilers" on ebay.com.au

do you have any links, or did someone go and buy all 16 of them last night?


I did find AMG front spoilers though..
http://tunstyle.eu/en/s-class/91-w116-amg-front-spoiler-lip-air-dam.html

but if you try to buy it, there is no carrier available to ship it to you......(USA)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 27 August 2017, 07:24 AM
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w116-s-se-sel-sd-class/1455410-got-me-chin-spoiler-finally.html#post3738220

old post, but $1400 shipping from australia....
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 27 August 2017, 04:27 PM
Hi Rum,
I was pulling your leg mate, sorry!
ill have a good look around, I sure I had a few of these.
 one had a crack in a section but it was intact, it could be plastic welded easily I think and looks fine.
if I can find it next week ill send you some pics and work something out. 
can't sell the new one sorry, it was meant to go on my car but haven't got round to it yet. and the other, one always needs a spare!
regards
nathan
PS beware of the AMG ones, a batch of reproduction ones got done here in Australia a few years ago.  they are not genuine, as long as you are aware of this.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 28 August 2017, 07:52 AM
You know guys I have a good feeling that Benz will repop these for us ;D  I always thought that the 6.9/W126 leveling valves were never to be seen again and lo and behold they became available again at the bargain basement price of $ 1 640 per ;)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 09 September 2017, 07:25 AM
I was driving my W108 last week, the lady in front of me slammed her brakes on to avoid a rabbit.  I tapped her car at @2mph.  Couldnt find even a mark on her car.  Initially I only saw my front license plate bent, but when I pulled away I saw something on the ground.  My grill badge.

I must of tapped the grill just enough to bust the aluminum screw holding the badge on  that also holds the top of the grill.  MB wants $240 for the badge and $170 for the vertical grill strip!

Compared to how MB likes to rip us off , $450 for a baffle plate seem very realistic.

As far as repo goes, I found but need to contact an injection molder company that make prototype molds and does injection.  Been bust but will get around to it.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: ptashek on 09 September 2017, 09:44 AM
If someone has drawings, or a 3D model, I could check a few companies in Eastern Europe to see if they'd be interested in getting these done and for how much.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 09 September 2017, 11:21 AM
I was quoted about $750 for 3D scanning, which would be the first step for any method of reproduction.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 10 September 2017, 12:33 PM
RUMB, do NOT buy the grill badge from Mercedes.  The originals were copper with nickel plating, and then a coating of blue and white enamel on top of that.  The enamel process is called champleve`, and is rather expensive to restore, but there are companies that restore old champleve` badges.  The new one from Mercedes is painted, looks horrible, and is overpriced to a large degree considering it's painted. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 10 September 2017, 04:35 PM
it only costs about 20 bucks doesn't it? you can also just got to the dealer and get one in a few days!
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 11 September 2017, 01:02 AM
I was quoted about $750 for 3D scanning, which would be the first step for any method of reproduction.

750 for scanning?That's  a little steep, maybe. Normally, anyone with a scanner should be the one doing production. That way, scanning is in the price (or off the price) of the produced goods.
Still, as long as my baffle is missing, I can't scan anything here, but would be glad to have a scan sent to me, so I can run it past a couple of automotive companies here.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 11 September 2017, 06:06 AM
it only costs about 20 bucks doesn't it? you can also just got to the dealer and get one in a few days!

W108's are cool now and also over 50 yrs old.

108-880-00-88 $263.52 from that little repo badge......

MOLDING, GRILLE, METAL - MERCEDES-BENZ (110-888-00-21)    $187.88  this is the vertical one. I will prob get the turkey repo set.  I used them on my W116 and you cant tell any different from the originals. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCEDES-W108-GRILLE-MOULDINGS-VERTICAL-HORIZONTAL-NEW-/162606437588?hash=item25dc1954d4:g:CI4AAOxyKh5R9aTt&vxp=mtr


just for fun I ran across this MB grill watch!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-S-Class-300-600-SEL-6-3-Grille-Art-Deco-W108-W109-Car-Design-Watch-/182751108086?hash=item2a8cd09bf6:g:fCoAAOSwUIhZYNIV
I've been looking on fleabay, where you can buy an entire grill assy with the badge for less.  trying to spot a good one with and original badge. small hole variety grill.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: 1960mog on 11 September 2017, 07:32 AM
Hi Rumb

Did you ever find that front spoiler?
I have a used one that shows some distortion along the mounting edge and some scraping on the bottom.
It looks perfectly good when mounted to the car.
If you are interested, I will loan it to you for copying.
However, I need it back ,of course.

(https://i.imgur.com/IbGJzSz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Hsrsfkd.jpg) 

(https://i.imgur.com/pNBAhJD.jpg)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 11 September 2017, 08:12 AM
Ah-ha, it's a dodo bird ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: 1960mog on 11 September 2017, 09:38 AM
I just had a  plastic guru take a look at the spoiler.
With in a couple of minutes he took some of the waviness out.
He could probably do better with more time.
Also the scraping on the bottom can be removed and the visible surface can be restored to almost new condition.


(https://i.imgur.com/yM9H61n.jpg)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 11 September 2017, 04:51 PM
it only costs about 20 bucks doesn't it? you can also just got to the dealer and get one in a few days!

Nathan, as RUMB stated, the badge and grill strips in question here are for an early W108/W109 car.  They have a different grill badge as compared to the W116.  IN addition, the W116 grill badges are supposed to be painted anyway, as they were when new. 

Regarding the grill badge itself for a W116, the current part number, 115-880-03-88, is no longer available.  The part number has been superseded to part number
116-880-02-88, which currently lists for over $200 USD.  So no, they're not $20. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 12 September 2017, 05:04 AM
 ;D   I bought mine last year off fleabay for $10.08!!!!
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: nathan on 12 September 2017, 09:10 AM
sorry Rum, I didn't see the prior page and thought you were referring to the 116 badges!

UTn, kudos to you for dispelling my question.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 12 October 2017, 12:44 AM
Good news, I think..
I found my baffle spoiler and it's mint, NOS as was promised.
Immediately took it to the factory and received quotes for 10, 50 and 100 units.
50 units in fiberglass can be shipped out from Taiwan for 200usd a pop.
In order to proceed I would need gentlemen's commitments from those that want one.
The item is very light, so shipping worldwide would be at a very friendly rate.
Naturally, the perfect fit and finish would be under my warranty.
Your thoughts please.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 12 October 2017, 02:47 AM
Stan, is there any way that you can have them made like the originals?  That is, ,make them out of the nylon propylene material instead of fiberglass? 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: tcj on 12 October 2017, 03:08 AM
Quote
Stan, is there any way that you can have them made like the originals?  That is, ,make them out of the nylon propylene material instead of fiberglass?

I agree. The baffle plate sits very low, and fiberglass will break very fast when hitting the next sidewalk.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 12 October 2017, 05:11 AM
I agree, some type of tough plastic is needed.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 12 October 2017, 07:44 AM
Naturally, I checked that option first. It is impossible to do without very expensive extrusion molds, anywhere between 25 and 50 thou. That's why MB would charge 1400 euros if ever they reproduce them.
Carbon is an option, though, but it will cost 100usd more.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 12 October 2017, 08:23 AM
No good deed goes unpunished ;D
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 10 December 2017, 10:06 AM
Met with company in Seattle that can produce the baffle plate for a price that I think will work.

They will scan part, size for shrinkage, 3d print one master and make urethane mold.  I have several materials I need to review that are probably tougher than the original to determine.  Will produce 40-50, what ever the mold can withstand.

TJ has posted his old part to me that I will send on to Seattle. Need to work on packaging and estimates of shipping costs.

I think we will be seeing this part available 1Q of next year.

rumb
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 10 December 2017, 03:35 PM
You have an indication of the costs?  Even if you can get the molds as cheap as the Chinese have on offer (10thou), it's gonna be a very costly affair, with molding write-off per unit starting at 250usd per baffle at 40 units. That work is pre-paid, and if the final product is off by as little as 5mm, you're at a big loss with little hope for warranty. You'd be shipping international, national, and again, international.
I would not have that risk in Taiwan, but with molding costs at 12500, and a guaranteed 50 units, I'd be at 250usd as well,before local shipping, packaging and international shipping. I wasn't planning on making a profit, but clients would still be paying hefty prices in the end.
If you were to produce only 40 of them, costs would go up by another 20%
I have not heard 40, nor 50 .org guys here volunteering to pay that much, and if you don't sell all of them, again you'd be at a loss.
Wouldn't you want to check your clientele first, before investing that much?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 10 December 2017, 06:20 PM
time will tell if I'm the hero or the fool. I would guess that >70% of 6.9's are missing this part. To me that is a market. 


Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 10 December 2017, 09:45 PM
I would buy one of those and pay the asking price if I weren't in such a bad financial situation. It would be a good pairing with my skid plate.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 11 December 2017, 06:02 AM
In the light of shipping costs only going up by a fraction, if ordering 3-in-one-go, one could order 3 spoilers in carbon or fiber, for the price of 1 spoiler in urethane.
With installation of such spoilers being so easy, how long would 3 spoilers last  before all 3 would have been damaged beyond repair?
And, there is no such thing as damage-proof urethane neither. I have cracked many of such bumpers and spoilers over the years.
I am just saying, I wish you well, and I hope you won't be digging yourself into a pit with this venture.
My experience is that the actual percentage of W116 owners willing to pay top dollar for non-essential parts is really low. My gut tells me that selling a perfectly-shaped replacement at 3x less money has a 10-fold better chance of selling.
I am one of those madmen willing to go the extra mile with my cars, but I would never buy a urethane at 600 if I could get a carbon or fiber version for 2 or 300 bucks. Once sprayed, nobody would be able to tell the difference. I would only need to be given the warranty of a perfect fit.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: tcj on 11 December 2017, 06:21 AM
urethane - carbon - fiber
Please consider weather it brakes with sharp edges.
As this may exposes additional danger to a person you hit in an accident.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 11 December 2017, 06:32 AM
The very rules that apply in Europe now are such that all new cars are shaped in basically the same way, when it comes to the nose, bonnet height and related. Carbon parts are used more on expensive, fast cars then on nissans, and little or no word on those racing parts in carbon. What is considered above everything else when it comes to pedestrians's safety is the angle of the grille and main bumper, and the height of the bonnet. Little attention to what happens underneath the main bumper.
I would say that this specific baffle plate's shape and location is not a source for concern, in this specific version. On that same note, driving a W116 is a threat to all pedestrians in countless ways, because it was built decades before security standards like these were invented. If pedestrian safety is one's goal, buying a Nissan March is probably one's best bet.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: ptashek on 11 December 2017, 01:44 PM
Also, to sell a part like this in Europe it must have the "CE" safety mark, otherwise it's illegal to sell in EU countries.

Additionally, to the best of my knowledge, in Germany a KBA (Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt) approval is required, otherwise it's illegal to use on a car, and will fail the TÜV immediately as such aftermarket accessories must be entered in the registration papers (so called "Brief").
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 11 December 2017, 02:43 PM
Indeed, this is a thing, but would you expect such laws to be upheld if a German were to privately import 1-3 units? That would be a bummer.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: ptashek on 12 December 2017, 01:19 AM
Indeed, this is a thing, but would you expect such laws to be upheld if a German were to privately import 1-3 units? That would be a bummer.

I've had a quick look around their site, but can't find anything super specific, but I believe the requirements apply to manufactures rather than individuals obtaining a permit directly  (ABE).

https://www.kba.de/DE/Home/home_node.html ist the agency's website, maybe someone more local can get exact details. Not that it's critical for this project, just an interesting point in the wider context :)
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 12 December 2017, 10:41 AM
In the light of shipping costs only going up by a fraction, if ordering 3-in-one-go, one could order 3 spoilers in carbon or fiber, for the price of 1 spoiler in urethane.
With installation of such spoilers being so easy, how long would 3 spoilers last  before all 3 would have been damaged beyond repair?
And, there is no such thing as damage-proof urethane neither. I have cracked many of such bumpers and spoilers over the years.
I am just saying, I wish you well, and I hope you won't be digging yourself into a pit with this venture.
My experience is that the actual percentage of W116 owners willing to pay top dollar for non-essential parts is really low. My gut tells me that selling a perfectly-shaped replacement at 3x less money has a 10-fold better chance of selling.
I am one of those madmen willing to go the extra mile with my cars, but I would never buy a urethane at 600 if I could get a carbon or fiber version for 2 or 300 bucks. Once sprayed, nobody would be able to tell the difference. I would only need to be given the warranty of a perfect fit.

But these weren't ever sprayed or painted when new.  They were matte black.  Could the material they're made from be made the correct shade/sheen of black before they're formed?  Also, even though the carbon fiber is less expensive to manufacture, it'll still break easier than the original material.  Typically, this would be of no consequence, but since this piece is in such a vulnerable spot that can snag anything at any given time wouldn't it make sense to have them made out of a material that is as good as the original or better?  Just thinking out loud here.  :)   
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 12 December 2017, 12:51 PM
I am looking at 3 different materials, the 1st choice is a material that would be stonger/flexible than the original, but still retain the color and    finish.   Will examine possibly making it a bit thicker also.

Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 13 December 2017, 06:52 AM
As far as i know, both Fiber and carbon allow for coloring mixed in with the resin. With glassfiber it is very commonly done in all sorts of full colors, with a finish that does not show you what material it was made of. With carbon, most people prefer to see that it's carbon.
We distribute BST carbon wheels here in Taiwan, and these are now available in red and blue as well. Matt black has been around forever., be it that the fiber within remains visible in all 3 optional colors. I expect that a (fe) full bright red is not possible, but adding darkness to the resin should be pretty easy, like overdoing the matt finish. I'd have to check the exact details.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 13 December 2017, 08:04 AM
My 2c on this would be to have the cheapest material that would allow for faithful reproduction in large enough numbers to make it viable.  Longevity really should not be of not too much concern as these things get wiped out constantly, so why drop big coin on "exotic" materials if it's not "needed"?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 13 December 2017, 01:04 PM
I was under the impression that these were just made of rubber so they wouldn't break when hitting an object. I suppose it would be possible for me to make a "poor man's" version of it, just getting a long length of dense rubber, cutting it to shape with a rotary tool, then attaching it to an L-bracket up top. Not original by any means, of course.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 13 December 2017, 01:10 PM
I was under the impression that these were just made of rubber so they wouldn't break when hitting an object. I suppose it would be possible for me to make a "poor man's" version of it, just getting a long length of dense rubber, cutting it to shape with a rotary tool, then attaching it to an L-bracket up top. Not original by any means, of course.

No,  They weren't rubber.  They were made out of nylon propylene.  I suppose it does resemble rubber, but rubber would have been too heavy and soft. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 13 December 2017, 01:13 PM
No,  They weren't rubber.  They were made out of nylon propylene.  I suppose it does resemble rubber, but rubber would have been too heavy and soft.

It's not the same material that the flexible piece that goes between the front bumper and body on the North American models have, is it? Which is also the same as the side pieces on the North American bumpers? That material seems like it would be suitable, but maybe that's nylon propylene?
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: UTn_boy on 13 December 2017, 01:17 PM
No,  They weren't rubber.  They were made out of nylon propylene.  I suppose it does resemble rubber, but rubber would have been too heavy and soft.

It's not the same material that the flexible piece that goes between the front bumper and body on the North American models have, is it? Which is also the same as the side pieces on the North American bumpers? That material seems like it would be suitable, but maybe that's nylon propylene?

No, it's not the same as those pieces on U.S. bumpers.  Those pieces are a formed rubber composite.     
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 13 December 2017, 03:24 PM
I'm looking into TP-4014 Innothane

hardness shore D =  70
flexural strength psi = @5000
flexural modulus psi = @130,000
elongation at break  = @60%
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 18 January 2018, 12:52 PM
Received baffle plate from Germany and mounted to lower panel, getting ready to send to manufacturer.

Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: s class on 19 January 2018, 01:02 AM
Well done for your efforts so far.  Much appreciated. 
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: rumb on 25 September 2018, 12:50 PM
I abandoned this project as the quote was extremely high, but now this one shows up on ebay.de for a lot more that it would cost me to make them.  Of course it's the first one I have seen for sale in 4 years.

For those of you that thought $450 for one of these was too high, hold on to your pants when you see what he wants.


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-w116-6-9-stostange-spolier-Nos/232934745905?hash=item363bfe2731:g:RcQAAOSwty5borld
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: daantjie on 25 September 2018, 12:54 PM
These are the infamous French brothers selling their stuff at outrageously inflated prices as Stan and others will attest to.
One day we will find a stash of these or they will get repopped once 116 values rise. Simple economics.
Title: Re: baffle plate
Post by: floyd111 on 26 September 2018, 03:06 AM
There's still the option in glass fiber and/or carbon, made in Taiwan. Prices are somewhere in this thread. Not for profit, but if there's interest, I can set it up. PU extrusion is simply too costly, with the molds required