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Print Page - 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!

Forum

Garage => Interiors & Exteriors => Topic started by: littlefin on 16 February 2012, 11:59 AM

Title: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 16 February 2012, 11:59 AM
I went to visit my 280SE today, and I am happy to report work is definitely underway!
I think the car looks a little sad with the interior removed, but it's in a good cause  ;)

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/35639-1/Front+View.JPG)
I don't have any photos of 'before' yet, but here it is with outer sills removed:
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/35650-1/NS+Landscape.JPG)
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/35645-1/OS+Landscape.JPG)
Inner sills look very healthy, and front wings not too bad either, thankfully
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/35655-1/NS+Front+Closeup.JPG)
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/35660-1/OS+Front+Closeup.JPG)

Outer Sill replacement is Stage One.
Stage Two is repairing both rear chassis legs, which involves dropping the rear subframe down.
Consequently I am planning to have the rear subframe bushes replaced at the same time.

Hoping to get the car back in a month or so... More photos to follow...
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: mirafioriman on 16 February 2012, 03:23 PM
Caught the rot in time there. Often the inner sills and jacking points are in much worse condition......
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 17 February 2012, 09:34 AM
So I understand. We are replacing the front jacking points to be on the safe side.

I am really pleased that the rot hasn't gone too far.
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: Casey on 17 February 2012, 09:06 PM
The sills on my SE are not good - they look okay from outside but the jack points make scary rusty sounds if you try to use them, so I don't. This gives some hope as I thought it wouldn't be worth saving. Wonder how much a job like this costs...
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 22 February 2012, 01:06 PM
The sills on my SE are not good - they look okay from outside but the jack points make scary rusty sounds if you try to use them, so I don't. This gives some hope as I thought it wouldn't be worth saving. Wonder how much a job like this costs...

Scary amount  :'(
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: mirafioriman on 22 February 2012, 01:42 PM
I guess it depends who does it ;)

One thing you can't control is the price of new parts from Mercedes however. Pattern sills are no use for this job really as they are too thin and usually designed to go over the original sills.

It's not too bad a job to do if the inner sills and jacking points are sound. If they have gone too, then it's more work and more expense! On my 6.3 the rot also extended into the floor......
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 22 February 2012, 01:54 PM
One thing you can't control is the price of new parts from Mercedes however. Pattern sills are no use for this job really as they are too thin and usually designed to go over the original sills.

It's not too bad a job to do if the inner sills and jacking points are sound. If they have gone too, then it's more work and more expense! On my 6.3 the rot also extended into the floor......

Ouch! That makes my repair work look very straightforward. I'm using all original Mercedes parts - panels included. My repairer wouldn't use pattern parts for that very reason. Deep pockets required though  :(
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: Mforcer on 22 February 2012, 02:27 PM
Thanks for sharing the photos. I am hoping my sills are ok and am trying to get a camera on a flexible tube to have a look inside them.
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: mirafioriman on 22 February 2012, 02:33 PM
The genuine Mercedes parts are expensive but the ones I got for my 6.3 at least are good quality and actually fit :) so you spend less time fitting them. They look much better and more original.
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 22 February 2012, 03:08 PM
Stage Two is underway -  there's definitely no turning back now! The rear subframe was removed today...

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36442-2/081.JPG)

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36477-2/076.JPG)

In order to facilitate the repair of the rear chassis legs/rear wheel tubs.

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36447-2/077.JPG)

Apart from the rust damage to the rear chassis legs, some surface rust on the rear crossmember and the rusted-off bump stop, it's really not too bad back here overall
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36490-2/rear+chassis+leg+ns.JPG)
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36495-2/Rear+chassis+leg+os.JPG)
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36457-2/085.JPG)

The rust is largely superficial and evrything should clean up nicely. It's all much more accessible with the rear subframe removed. We will of course be cleaning up the underside and acid treating the rust before waxoyling and injecting wax into all the cavities to prevent further corrosion prior to re-assembly.

All the rubber suspension components were original and therefore rather suspect at 33 years old. We are taking the opportunity to replace the rear subframe mounts, control arm bushes, anti-roll bar bushes and links. All these jobs are much more straightforward with the subframe on the floor. I can't afford new shocks at this stage, but they can easily be changed at a later date. This is all that remained of one of the subframe mounts after disassembly:

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36472-2/087.JPG)

The final part of this stage of the repair is to the Right Hand Rear wheel arch. This area is very scabby and crusty and is letting the whole car down. Although the car's paintwork overall isn't brilliant, this is pretty bad...

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36484-2/OS+Wheelarch.JPG)

So the rusted area will be cut out, the inner wing made good and a repair panel welded in. This operation is also going to be a great deal easier with the rear subframe removed. After that it's just a question of stripping the wheel tubs and respraying with stonechip then repainting all the repaired areas in body colour [Mittel Rot 516].
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: mirafioriman on 22 February 2012, 03:36 PM
Nice work. It's the only way to do a proper job ;)
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 22 February 2012, 05:00 PM
Thanks for sharing the photos. I am hoping my sills are ok and am trying to get a camera on a flexible tube to have a look inside them.

No problem! I know you are engaged on a major journey yourself! I'm not in a position to do major repairs myself, but I've been following your posts with interest since I joined the forum. Luckily for me the rust in my car hasn't spread to the floor so my interior is free from water damage  8)

It was looking inside my sills with an endoscope that persuaded me to get them replaced. The condition of the jacking points and the area around them is a good indicator of the condition inside the sill I would say. Also if you thump the underside of the sill and can hear loose material jumping around inside, that's not a good sign  :(
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 02 March 2012, 12:53 PM
Hi all!  Things have moved along a little since my last post. The whole of the rear underside has now been cleaned off, anti-rust treated and undersealed.
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/undersidecleanedtreatedundersealed.jpg)
Everything looking much more like it should...
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/280SErightsiderearchassisleg.jpg)
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/280SEleftsiderearchassisleg.jpg)
The similarly treated rear subframe has now been refitted, complete with new subframe mountings, wishbone bushes, anti-roll bar bushes & links(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/280SEsubframerestored.jpg)
Beginning to look the business, I'm sure you'll agree?
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/280SEsubframerefitted.jpg)
All that needs doing back here now is new brake calipers and brake hoses!
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: calvin streeting on 02 March 2012, 02:09 PM
nice....
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: Big_Richard on 02 March 2012, 02:34 PM
.
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: TJ 450 on 02 March 2012, 08:06 PM
Great job,

Echoing MT's comments, with that under sealant it should be well protected.

Tim
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 08 March 2012, 12:51 PM
OK, so another week on and some more progress to report
Both sills have now been properly welded into place, and the jacking points welded to the outer sills.(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0204.jpg)
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0209.jpg)
Cavity wax was injected into the sill cavity after the jacking points were welded in order to avoid the wax being chased off by the welding.
Then the sill closing plates were fixed at both ends of the sills in the wheel tubs
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0203.jpg)
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0207.jpg)

Note also the newly repaired bottom corner of the right hand front wing.
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0208.jpg)

Work has also started on repairing the right rear wheel arch.
The old outer wheel arch has been cut away to reveal the extent of the damage to the inner wheel arch panel
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0205.jpg)
Fortunately the damage here is not too extensive to be repairable. There is one small-ish hole where the rust has perforated the metal, but the entire edge is 'lacey' where water has penetrated into the joint between the inner & outer arch panels and blown the joint apart. The outer arch will now be cut back further to incorporate a repair panel (approx size of panel shown with marker pen line)
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/IMG_0206.jpg)
After the wheel arch repair is complete, it'll be off to the paintshop! Virtually all the new metal will be treated with stonechip like the underside before being painted in the appropriate colour [Note: The new black coating underneath is stonechip not 'underseal', as stonechip sets hard and therefore doesn't get road crud sticking to it. Stonechip is also over-paintable, whereas underseal isn't]
 
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: mirafioriman on 08 March 2012, 01:01 PM
Looking good. Must be nice to have a W116 with a good pair of sills :)
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: adamb on 08 March 2012, 02:29 PM
It's interesting that W116s deteriorate in the same way. Mine had very similar repairs and sills have been replaced some time in the 90s. Are you repainting it the same colour (can't tell if it's Signal Red or not) or going for a new coat?

Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: WGB on 08 March 2012, 03:10 PM
Looking really great.

Thanks for posting teh photos.

Bill
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: arman on 09 March 2012, 12:33 AM
What a dream job. This is gonna look fantastic! I want this too!

MB has originally a very heavy thick undercoat, which is good for the first 15 years (normal live time of a car) but at some point it starts to crack because of the heaviness, thickness and ageing effects. And then it closes in water/moisture that is coming in through these cracks. Has the car been driving wintertime with salty roads, it will rot away unseen until it is sometimes too late to solve things economically justified. But ones heart is a strong persuader... Nice work!
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 09 March 2012, 12:50 AM
I love write-ups like this. It's one thing to hear how things are done, but having pictures really helps illustrate the process.
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 09 March 2012, 01:11 AM
Are you repainting it the same colour (can't tell if it's Signal Red or not) or going for a new coat?

Hi Adam

The colour is actually Mittel Rot #516, although this panel has been (poorly) repainted is the past, and the colour match isn't great.  We're only repainting the repaired sections at this time.

I hope to repaint the whole car at a later date - funds permitting of course  ;)

Phil
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 21 March 2012, 04:32 PM
Apologies for the lack of posts recently. I can't believe it's been nearly two weeks since my last offering here!
I visited the car last week, but was running late & forgot to take any pictures of the car in the spray booth  ::)

I am pleased to report that there has been some progress... you will recall my right rear wheel arch looked like this:

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/36484-2/OS+Wheelarch.JPG)
then like this:

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/37790-1/IMG_0205.JPG)
well, it now looks like this!

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/37772-1/IMG_0221.JPG)

The sills and rear wheel arches were painted with stonechip and left in the oven to harden overnight, then they were overpainted with the topcoat: Medium Red 516. The lower sills still need to be overpainted with black.

(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/37777-1/IMG_0224.JPG)
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/37782-1/IMG_0220.JPG)

The doors have been refitted to assist with mopping/polishing process. As you can see, the polishing process has not been completed yet. So the car's beginning to come back together (still no interior though!) Note: the car has also been fitted with the new (old) alloy wheels I bought recently off ebay. I'm not sure yet if I'll keep these on the W116, I am in two minds whether to fit them to my W108 and keep the W116 on steel wheels. Opinions anyone?

The mechanical work to the braking system has now also been done while the paint was hardening:
new (recon) calipers front & rear, new discs (rotors) and pads front & rear, new handbrake shoes, and all four new flexible brake hoses. If the car doesn't stop now...

Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: Mforcer on 22 March 2012, 01:28 AM
It is looking great! Thanks for the inspiration!
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: adamb on 22 March 2012, 07:14 AM
Great pics. I like the alloys - they suit the colour of the car.
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: mirafioriman on 22 March 2012, 01:24 PM
Looks great. Personally I would keep the alloys on, they look great on a W116. Although red doesn't seem to be a well liked W116 colour by some I think a W116 looks really good in red ;)
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: ponton on 22 March 2012, 11:18 PM
What a beautiful job. I like the alloys myself.  Thanks for sharing!

Ian
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: arman on 23 March 2012, 03:16 AM
Stunning sight! I like the red colour with alloys as well. But this is ofcourse a perfect look and as near new car you can get. I think the red colour for the w116 is quite rare isn't it?
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: brettj on 27 March 2012, 03:37 PM
Awesome Job! As soon as I finish up some mechanical issues on my 450SE, my car will be undergoing a sill replacement. The scary part is that skins were applied over the original sills so I can't see the outer damage to the originals.

Personally, I like the look of the hubcaps over the alloys. The chrome on the caps along with the matching body color centers really makes the car stand out. I get comments about the hubcaps on my car all the time. They are conversation pieces. Your car will really stand out being red with the chrome of the caps. Keep the steel wheels and caps!
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 27 March 2012, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the messages of support everyone! I get to pick up the car from the shop this week, and I can't wait.
I haven't actually driven the car since last August !!!

Don't worry hubcap fans, I'm planning to keep the steel wheels & caps for special occasions! The tyres on the steel wheels were between 15 & 27(!) years old when I bought the car, so they had to go anyway. The steel wheels themselves could also do with refurbishment. It worked out cheaper to buy the bundt wheels & tyres off eBay than just buy new rubber in the short term, although the current tyres are slightly the wrong size (185/70R14 instead of 185/80R14 which I hadn't noticed) I'm slightly surprised someone didn't pull me up on that!

I'm intrigued by the aluminium steel-alike wheels - I had no idea such a thing existed Raptelan

The real downside with the alloys (for someone as lazy as me) is the amount of cleaning required!
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: littlefin on 29 March 2012, 01:49 PM
I had a good day today. The repairs to my 280SE are complete - so I picked it up from the workshop today!
The weather in the UK had been unseasonably warm & sunny. Consequently...

I drove down in this:
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/290312crop-1.jpg)

and drove home in this:
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o494/230phil/280SE%20VTY789T/290312crop.jpg)

How cool is that?  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: Type17 on 29 March 2012, 02:22 PM
How cool is that?  8) 8) 8)


Extremely!  :)


Two gorgeous red cars, and a great job on the 116 - all ready for summer 2012 - enjoy  8)
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: navigator on 29 March 2012, 03:41 PM
What a love, crisp thread!!

Thanks for sharing Lil'Fin!!

My heart is in my throat because I will shortly have to take off the decorative chrome arch and sill covers......... :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: 280SE Outer Sill replacement underway!
Post by: oversize on 28 January 2013, 02:45 AM
That's a beautiful red!!  Well done on all the work.

How bad were the sills at the start?  How were the old ones removed (I'd assume drilling the spot welds)?  And what method was used to weld on the new ones?