Sunroof is stuck in the almost closed position - Help! Need to remove the liner

Started by karmann_20v, 06 July 2016, 07:44 PM

karmann_20v

Quote from: UTn_boy on 21 July 2016, 05:04 PM
The tubing for the sunroof drains is still available for about $40.00 USD per meter.  Part number 003-997-63-82.  Glad you found the problem, too! 

I'm certain that the back glass doesn't have to come out to replace the drain tubing.  It's not a fun job to replace the drain tubing, but pretty straight forward.

Thanks for the P/N! Do you have any idea what would the total length be (for all 4 tubes), so I can go ahead and order prior to removing the old ones? I found a couple older posts that indicate the fronts being 107cm, any idea on the rears?

Also, I was referring to the cable metallic tube that may be the one requiring the rear glass to come out. I saw that in the service manual on this site, but by the looks of it they suggest that so you can take the tube in and out of the passenger compartment through the large glass opening (the procedure describes the tube coming forward into the pass. compartment once disconnected and unbolted). I surely hope I can somehow maneuver it through either the sunroof, or the rear door opening.

gavin116

Hi Karmann

I've been there, done that.  Well not me exactly, I sent the car in to John Haynes to get my sunroof repair:
http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/my-first-w116-here-at-last/msg101522/#msg101522

You need to order 6 metres of "Hose, Drain, VLRU" part number MA003 997 63 82.  Really its no special tubing, save yourself the tremendous cost, and buy some good quality tubing off the shelf.  Oh, by the way as you have been unable to pull a cord through the channel when removing the sunroof drains, use some strimmer wire, the thick plastic cord, and you should be able to find the pathway easy.  And if you do go the gold plated way, measure twice cut once!

Good luck, hope you're weather-tight again soon.

Gavin
1979 450SE "Mrs White"
2022 Touareg-R 3.0TSi Hybrid
[url="http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/my-first-w116-here-at-last/"]http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/my-first-w116-here-at-last/[/url]
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karmann_20v

Thanks alot Gavin, those were the surprises I was worrying about (rust in the tray), but so far so good - knock on wood! A rough calculation points to US$ 240 to get all the hose required, time to call a few industrial suppliers and see what's available. Main issue may be finding a standard (imperial - inches) ID hose close enough to the metric tubing used on these cars.

floyd111


karmann_20v

Thank you Stan!

Another update, removed the rear seat and C pillar cover which allowed me to remove the s-roof cable tube, but only after removing the motor assembly in the trunk. Happy to report that the rear glass didn't have to come out (UTn_boy you were correct and I'm so happy you were!). There was a bit of fiddling required because the tube has a rubber coating on it that prevents it from sliding out easily, also it doesn't come straight out, it follows a certain path. My advice is do it slowly (patience!!!) and have one person holding the tube in the car, while a second one pushes it out from the trunk. There were 2 objectives here: to learn as much as possible for the installation of the replacement tube and try not to damage the old one, as I want to compare it with the new one to ensure the size and shape is similar.

Further, I also removed the s-roof panel from the tracks/assembly (which has been sitting in my basement  for a week) and inspected the rear lifter mechanisms for damage (none found).

Not much for me to do on this subject for a while (until the parts show up), other than cleaning the superficial rust around the front drains and remove the old gasket material.

markb

I just finished a massive sunroof/tray rust redemption on my car as it needed major work on the roof edges, new seals, and.. what else? The tray turned out to be over the edge, but I had little hope of finding much better. So: grinding, sandblasting, fiberglass, epoxy, POR-15, hours. I'd post pictures but they're too frightening (and I'm having upload issues)! Anyway, a few notes on what I did (not for everyone):

- I removed the sunroof itself before the tray, which can then be pulled out the front passenger side door.. if you move the shifter to low position.

- Drain tubes. I used 1/2" ID clear vinyl tubing from HD. The originals crumbled in my hands so I wasn't so impressed (only 37 years?!). I pre-stretched the ends for a few days because it was a pretty tight fit. I fished a pull line through the forward drain tubes before removing them (using compressed air), and pulled the new tubing while pulling out the old from inside the cabin, spraying WD40 on the tubing first. Not too hard. I trimmed to final length afterward while the tray was out. The rears were pretty easy (also note one of the originals was crimped, part of the problem?).

- Foam Gasket. Also off-the-shelf (insulating foam strips for the thicker rear half, and rubberized roof flashing for the thinner forward half). Seeing where my tray rusted I suspect the original gasket absorbed water and there it sat, and rusted. After adhering the new foam to the tray, I sealed the interior edge by "painting" it with several coats of silicone caulking. Hopefully that will prevent the foam from absorbing water.

- My nylon guide shoes were ok but I had to fabricate replacements for the NLA fuzzy rubber shoes at the forward corners (using HDPE).

- The left/right and height adjustments are an iterative process. There are specs in the library, section 77-110.

- I'm back to driving my sunroof around. It works like new?! Note-to-self: Lubricate, and clean your sunroof drains regularly. :-)
Mark
1979 450SEL. 209k, 20+ year daily driver.
1969 Citroen DS21 Wagon. Long ago and far away, but still amazed.
1956 MGA. Dismantled 1984. Saving for my first born son (nyd!).

karmann_20v

Those are some very good points Mark! At least you had no cable/tube issues.

5/8" ID hose is widely available and is only 1mm larger (~16mm vs 15mm). I am picking up 18' for less than $20.

markb

Yeah, the picture of your cable was gruesome! What an odd failure.

I forgot to mention that the front seal (from Meyle) had cross sections quite a bit larger than the one I removed, from about 15 years ago. That one was not installed correctly and it's no wonder; I don't see HOW it can be installed without dropping the tray and re-capturing it. You might want to install it on the tray before or while bolting the tray back in place.

I'm not terribly happy with the fit of my new seal, but at least now I'm not afraid of water going down the drain..  ;-)
Mark
1979 450SEL. 209k, 20+ year daily driver.
1969 Citroen DS21 Wagon. Long ago and far away, but still amazed.
1956 MGA. Dismantled 1984. Saving for my first born son (nyd!).

karmann_20v

Quote from: markb on 27 July 2016, 09:42 PM
Yeah, the picture of your cable was gruesome! What an odd failure.

I forgot to mention that the front seal (from Meyle) had cross sections quite a bit larger than the one I removed, from about 15 years ago. That one was not installed correctly and it's no wonder; I don't see HOW it can be installed without dropping the tray and re-capturing it. You might want to install it on the tray before or while bolting the tray back in place.

I'm not terribly happy with the fit of my new seal, but at least now I'm not afraid of water going down the drain..  ;-)

Thanks for the tip again!

karmann_20v

Sunroof is back in, all greased up and adjusted, new drain tubing all around.




It opened and closed very smoothly a couple times and then something happened that prevented the full closing. Didn't take long to figure it out, I don't think I attached the tube to the motor properly (pic below). Does anybody know if the flared portion of the tube has to fit into the cutout that can be seen to its left and underneath the bolt, or how does it need to fit with the motor? Right now it isn't inserted all the way into the clip behind.


Thanks!

ptashek

1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE