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W109 3.5L questions

Started by oscar, 14 November 2007, 09:57 AM

oscar

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300171622250#description

Is it worth it?  It's a stones throw away (200km) ::) I'd love a 3.5L 300sel but am I looking at similar costs when it comes to "fixing" the engine and components.  Is it a similar setup to the 6.3 in terms of fuel injection or is it d-jetronic?  I know it's got air suspension like the 6.3 but I know not much else about them. 

What's your thoughts?  Waste of time or worth chasing and fixing?
1973 350SE, my first & fave

116Benz

Ask Bahnstormer(Paolo) he's got one stashed in the garage. Awesome car too.

alabbasi

It looks like it's standing up which means the suspension is good. I would go for it. The 3.5 is supposed to be a much sweeter engine then the 4.5 which is in my W108 280SEL. If the suspension is good , everything else can be sorted at costs comparable to your current S-Class.

I think these also have 4 speed autos which make them quicker.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

Andrew280SEL

IMO, if you can get it really cheap (by the sounds of it, you will) and have some storage space, I'd say go for it Oscar. 8)
'79 280SEL- 560,000 Kms
'73 350SE- getting an AMG facelift
'79 450SEL 6.9

CraigS

And don't forget the 4.5 US version. All other points are right on the button, but I disagree about the FI pump cost. You can have the pump rebuilt for under $1500, which, considering the complexity of it, is not that bad for another 35 years or driving. As someone else, the fact that it is sitting up is a good sign, but what you don't know is whether it drops overnight. If so, this means a likely rebuild of the valves. The motors are excellent, and I would have a 3.5 any day - but I would prefer a cabriolet !
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

alabbasi

Other little known facts (or maybe not so little)
W108 have springs W109's have Air Suspension
4.5's came with 3 speeds
There was a W108 300SE that was sprung.

300SEL's came with 2.8 and 3.0 and 6.3 liter MFI engines and then 3.5 and 4.5 EFI engines.
W109's came with Burl Wood and Zebrano whereas W108 models only came with Zebrano.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

oscar

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

additional info - The buyer questions have updated since I posted the link and whilst I was thinking 109 suspension sitting up on a car with an engine that doesn't turn must be good thing, someone asked about it and apparently the suspension has been converted and is now conventionally sprung.  Wouldv'e preferred original

The other thing was the age of the photos.  Oscarette picked up on it straight away.  Pics are about 8 years old.  Anyway, I'm going to try and see it before it ends.  Would conversion back to air sus be a consideration or if it's been stripped of everything related, would it be too costly and not worth the effort?
1973 350SE, my first & fave

alabbasi

Quote from: styria on 14 November 2007, 05:03 PM
Hi Alabbasi, I don't know of any 108/300SE. Are you referring to the 1968 version with the 2.8 litre engine ? I wrecked one of those, and it did have Air Suspension.

Yep, I have a book that has period reviews of the W108/W109 and W100 models of the time and it had a review on one there. From either a South African or Australian Mag.

There is also mention of it on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W108
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

CraigS

I agree that it is not worth looking at if the air suspension has been removed - unless you need a parts car. and at the BIN price, that is certainly not a parts car price.

Styria - my pump was rebuilt by Morassi & Williams, and they did the removal and installation in the price I mentioned, as well as making another water housing from brass. Who did you use ?
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

CraigS

I know the guy you mean in Melbourne. I think he was the guy doing Lindsay Fox's cars. Trust me - if you need to have one done again, send it to the people I used in Melbourne. There is NOTHING they don't know about these pumps.

It was unfortunate that Arthur retired. He was a guru as you mentioned, and had all of the Bosch specs either in his head, or on paper. The  new guy is certainly not as good. However, RonB recently had a new 6.3 FI cam made in Sydney from scratch - not sure who did it, but I can find out if needed in the future.

I know of many people that have had problems with these pumps, and yes, others that have also sent them to the US.

It is the same pump on the Aston Martin.
[url="http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/"]http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My%20Cars/[/url]

bahnstormer109

The air suspension in the 109's is fantastic.

i went looking for a 280SE 3.5 but when i saw my 300SEL 3.5 i got it just because of the suspension.

mine does sink but it doesnt bother me because i never drive it!

ive been neglecting it lately.
Paolo,
Brisbane, Australia.

72 300SEL 3.5
84 280CE
86 560SEL
86 230TE

Andrew280SEL

Quote from: bahnstormer109 on 15 November 2007, 04:05 AM

ive been neglecting it lately.

Hey Paolo,

Good to see you around. :)

Did you get your 4 speed box put back in that car? I remember you saying you hated the 3 speed it had, so I thought that's probably the reason you'd be neglecting it. :)
'79 280SEL- 560,000 Kms
'73 350SE- getting an AMG facelift
'79 450SEL 6.9

s class

Hi Oscar,

I hope the following comes across as 'realist' rather than 'pessimist'.  Given the long period of inactivity, you can assume this car will need a MFI rebuild.  You are also going to need 4 bags, probably 4 shocks if the originals have been replaced with the ones matching the steel springs, new or rebuilt levelling valves. Hopefully the air lines are still present, but again from moisture and inactivity you should count on replumbing the car.  Take it from me and my adventures on trusty rusty, this is no picnic.  If you are lucky the air compressor is still present, but again, be prepared for the possibility of it needing a rebuild. 

You will come out a lot cheaper buying a better condition, running car. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

oscar

Quote from: s class on 15 November 2007, 03:26 PM
I hope the following comes across as 'realist' rather than 'pessimist'. 

Absolutely.  Same goes for all the fors and againsts throughout the thread.  The car's looking like more and more of a headache.  A tempting headache but more than I can possibly take on at the moment.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

alabbasi

What does he want for it? If it's less then $1000 you can sell a fender and make half of that back!
On the air suspension question,  I wouldn't shy away from a spring conversion if it was done right and reversible.  Whomever had my Euro 6.9 and did the conversion made a real pigs ear out of it. I found a Euro 500SEL in the yard, pulled the valves, pump, shocks and spheres for about $80 (the lot) and will probably convert it back.

I will need to buy a couple of correct spheres (or find them in yards) and then cut and weld new inner fenders and it will be back to normal.

To me, this car is worth a close up look. If the metal and the interior is in good shape, i'm sure with the expertize that you have here, you can get it running and enjoy the conventional suspension (which isnt that bad) while you seek out the right parts car, or worse case, part it out and make a profit.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.