Fuel Prices - $US100 a barrel

[CraigS]

You might be right. The 6.3 is 27.7 US gallons (105lt), including reserve of 3.7 gallons (14lt), whereas the 6.9 is quoted as 25.3 US gallons AND 3.4 gallons reserve (but not quoted as INCLUDING) so I assumed - perhaps incorrectly, that it was PLUS the reserve.

This is the first time I've heard the Tank is 109litres.....I always thought it was 96 litres (inlc 13 litre reserve) not 96 +13 = 109.  Same as the 6.3 then?

[SELfor50]

You are correct BC, it's 10% ethanol...  I didn't realise it was bad?!

Should I not use it again?

I always assumed that the tank was 96L "Including a reserve of 13L".  I would think that means the 96L figure already includes the 13L's?!

Back to V-Racing... is Ethanol bad for these engines??

[oscar]

The thing is ethanol is corrosive to certain metals.  Ethanol may not be bad for our motors, I assume not, it's the fuel system with it's metal parts.  Whether 10% will affect it I don't know.  It may take ages.   But your fuel lines, fuel tank, fuel pump are all potentially at risk.  Again, 100% ethanol, you may notice sever corrosion, just not sure if 10% would have caused any damage in the time you have used it.  There's a few discussions about it ages ago, I remember OBH started a good one. http://forum.w116.org/auto-torque/mandated-ethanol-not-on-your-nellie/0/.  Just search ethanol on the forum and see what comes up.

[OzBenzHead]

[...] Back to V-Racing... is Ethanol bad for these engines??

In a word, YES!.

Do a search for "ethanol" here and on the Ozbenz forum; I - and others - have posted heaps on it in the past.

It will dissolve rubbers and plastics in pre-1986 (and many more modern) cars' fuel systems.  It should never be used in any pre-86 Benz.

[OzBenzHead]

Thanks, Oscar - you posted while I was typing.

[Brian Crump]

Merceds-Benz specifically warns against using any ethanol blend in pre 1986 cars. Even 5% will eat your fuel lines over time. Some people reprt it doing so after 2 or 3 fills of the stuff.Some older types of rubber just turn to black sludge when mixed with ethanol and then block everything....Ethanol=Evil. Anyway, it might pollute less but it dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, if you believe that is a problem (I don't).
Regards,
BC

[SELfor50]

Sweet.... thanks guys!!

No more V-Racing... at least not until a get a car that's newer than 86....shouldn't be too long!   

Until then, it'll have to be 98RON plus octane boost... 

[Mforcer]

Until then, it'll have to be 98RON plus octane boost... 

Why add an octane boost? Is your car pinging? I was under the impression that higher octane merely allows for higher compression engines without pinging. I don't think it adds to the energy obtainable from burning the fuel.

[OzBenzHead]

[...] Until then, it'll have to be 98RON plus octane boost...

M-B also say that no additives are necessary or desirable.  Unless you've raised your engine's compression above its factory setting, you're wasting your money using octane boosters.

Just good brand-name 98 RON is all that's required of any fuel-injected pre-86 Benz.

[oscar]

Here's something interesting.  From the owner's manual in the library for a 79280se/450sel it says:

-Fuel-  Unleaded gasoline: Average Octane of Research and Motor 87 (RON of 91).
          Fuel tank capacity approx. 25.3/21.1 US/Imp. gals. (96L).
          this includes a 3.4/2.9 US/Imp. gals. (13L) reserve.

So, 83 litres plus 13 litres reserve = 96 litres capacity.   But! notice the RON rating, (91).  That's "regular"!  My 350 manual pre 76 says use "premium"

My understanding was the official recommendation was for all petrol w116's to use premium or 98 RON.  The leaded/unleaded and upper head additive debate plus 98 RON availability now and years ago around the world are other issues altogether, but I really thought the party line was use 98 RON or equivalent.

[Bandolero]

Maybe it's because Australian Mercs had lower compression, due to our stricter emissions.
My 6.9 has 8:1 comp ratio, I believe.
The Euro's have 8.8:1.
I run my (1979) 280SE on 95 octane normally, but I have run it on 91 with no pinging.

[OzBenzHead]

Oscar:  US octane ratings are different from Oz octane ratings; the US numbers are lower than the Oz numbers for equivalent fuel.  I don't recall the actual differences, but they were posted (here? or on Ozbenz) a year or two ago.

And remember that the online manuals are for US (i.e. low-compression) models, so possible a lower-octane fuel would have been acceptable for US-spec (maybe even Oz-spec) Benzes.  As my 116 is Euro spec, I'll stay with the 98 RON.

[oscar]

Thanks guys, that makes a lot of sense re compression ratios and of course the US specific owners manual that I quoted. 

Come to think of it, the pinging a while back in my 350 which has the 9.5:1 ratio occurred whilst using 91RON.  It all depends on timing as well but when trying to adjust to more advance, between 5 and 10deg I got pinging during hard accleleration.  I can get just under 15deg with 98.  This is generally speaking from memory.  I don't think I'll bother getting real figures there.

[Niclas]

In Sweden too the fuel price is going nutz.
So I´m seriously thinking of converting my Euro 4.5 to E85 (85% ethanol/15% gasoline). If I remember right the other swede who got 814 HP from his compressor feeded engine run it on E85.

There is a couple of forums in Sweden where people describe how they converted all sorts of old cars to E85. The problems that have seemed to occur is clogged fuel filters and screaming fuel pumps. The fuel pump (for injection) problem is often solved by changing it to a Volvo fuel pump.
One more problem is that seals made out of cork wont stand the E85 so they have to be changed. Also most new ethanol cars (for example all new SAAB´s) have to change oil twice as often as the gasoline ones, so I guess that this applies to converted ones to.

If you do nothing but increase the fuel pressure they typically get an icreased fuel consumtion of about 30%. Some people change their ignintion point to 5-10 degrees earier too.
The more advanced "mechanics" raise the compression ratio, I read that you increase it up to the amazing figures of 15:1. Of course they gain a lot of fuel economy and power that way, I wonder if a 4,5 would coop a more moderate 12:1?? (from 8.8:1) I still have the cylinder heads off so its tempting...

All that I wrote above is only what I read on the Internet, anyone tried it to a 116 exept the other Swede who seems to have changed most of the fuel system to his w109?

Maybe the ansver is to convert it to E85 and start brewing my own ethanol.

By the way we have been using a 10% mixture in all our gasoline for a number of years, I newer heard about any old car getting troubles due to this.

/Niclas

[Niclas]

By the way, I googeled a little more and found this guy who run his Tahoe 110000 miles on E85 and then teared it apart. Good pics.

/Niclas