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Amateurs guide to a restoration project

Started by ptashek, 20 March 2016, 07:16 PM

ptashek

I've figured my (and Stan') observations from the Goldilocks restoration thread are better suited for a separate one, to help others find it easier.
It'd be great if others with restoration projects, of any magnitude, under their belt would contribute with their views and opinions.
For me personally, those big and small projects had some of the most valuable insights I've found on this site, but they're spread all over, and therefore need a lot of time to pull together.

Should I, or should I not restore my W116 to the extent of this (or similar) projects?
After (almost, for now) having done it, I still think the answer is an ambiguous "it depends".
And it depends on the answer to a very simple question - are you planning on keeping the car indefinitely, or are you planning to sell it on in the future?
For whatever definition of "indefinitely" and "future" you wish to apply.

If the answer is "sell it on", I can honestly say that - from a purely economical standpoint - fully restoring a W116 is pointless. Unless you do all of it yourself, and with global price trends (as of 2016) in mind, it is unlikely you will get any return on your investment in a time frame, where such restoration would still be fresh enough to warrant a high asking price. Perfectly restored and mothballed cars age too, unfortunately, and from my own observations it seems serious collectors will pick an unrestored car, over a restored one, any if they have a choice. Sure, there might exist some special markets where none of this applies (according to floyd111, Taiwan is such a market), but generally - loose all hope of making a buck out of it.

If the answer is "keep it", sky's the limit. Or more seriously, your financial circumstances and own love of the car. This is where the first pitfall comes up: letting passion override sanity. No car is worth getting into trouble over money, so tread carefully, plan as much as you can and have contingency plans for the unexpected. More on that in the next section.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

ptashek

Planning and budgeting
Now comes the part where you'll have to find a workshop to do the work for you, start drawing up a budget and a project plan. Ultimately, this is the reality check phase. You can still back out mostly without having incurred any expense.

Before you start looking for a shop, or drawing up a budget, figure out what it is you want to have done to the car. Be as precise as you can.
What's the expected end result? Write it down in detail - this is your battle plan, your sanity anchor and your base budget determinator.

With that in hand, start looking for a shop that is not only willing but also capable of delivering on your plan.
First and foremost, if you find a shop that does give you a detailed cost and duration estimate: run away as if your life depended on it.
What you can expect from a reputable shop that knows what they're doing, is a ball-park man-hour estimate based on past restoration projects similar to what you have in mind (ideally, Mercedes projects too).
Once you have a few candidate places, do your due diligence. Browse the web, talk to past customers if possible, check financial statements (in some countries those are public!)

Now that you have a base plan, and a workshop willing and capable of carrying it out, the next thing is figuring out your budget. From my own chats with people who have done such projects in the past, the rough estimate is a 50/50 split between parts and labour. In my case, it's pretty close to that ratio, so I'd say it's a good base estimate.

Next start browsing the EPC (it's a must!), and build a base list of parts that would be required to achieve the desired end result. This positions you to get a pretty close cost estimate on parts. Send that list to several MB dealers and stockists, and get a valuation. Disregard any discounts applied, add 50% to the highest figure to account for price hikes and you have your parts budget ready. Next, take the rough man-hour estimate you got from the shop (or use 2500 man-hours, which is reasonably generous), multiply by the hourly rate, account for all taxes and mandatory charges, add 50% for labour cost hikes. That's your labour budget. Why 50% markup? I'm a pessimist by design ;) Still, err on the side of worst case estimates.  And don't forget to ask the chosen workshop what their preferred method of payment is - stage by stage, downpayment deposit, lump sum payment after completion, monthly arrears; or a mix of any of those. It will impact how you need to budget for labour, and how much of that budget you must have in your pocket on day 1.

You may have noticed I keep saying "base budget", "base plan", "base parts list". Let me explain: those will change as you progress, and don't trust anyone who tells you different. You will most certainly need to adjust for outsourced services. You may need to adjust your budget and plan downward to account for unexpected events (global recession "2008 edition", anyone?). Or, you could win the lottery tomorrow and never bother counting your pennies ever again. I can't tell you what a good contingency budget markup is - it depends on your own personal circumstances. But do make sure to have some contingency funds planned into your budget.

Add your estimate parts and labour budget figures, contrast that with your financial circumstances and make the call to proceed, or abort. If in doubt - abort.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

ptashek

Contracting out the job
There's not much to say here, apart from making sure these few key points are covered in a written, legally enforceable contract:

- start date
- payment terms
- warranty terms
- penalties for breach of contract, and legal jurisdiction (e.g if you're doing the job in another country, or state)

Pretty much a typical contract.

In addition to that, you need to agree on who will be sourcing parts for the project. If you have the budget, let the workshop do it. If not, do it yourself and you may save quite a nice chunk of money. Workshops tend to stick to their local, tried and trusted suppliers and generally won't put in the effort to cast a wide net in search of the best deal. Simply put, they don't care about getting you the best deal.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

ptashek

Sourcing parts ("ptashek" edition)
If you haven't yet done so, get a subscription to EPC. No excuses, just do it. Learn how to use the thing, inside and out - this is your 99% accurate source of truth. There simply isn't a better one.
It might not be cheap at 75USD/year (or so) but let's be honest - you're about to spend many thousands more, this is peanuts.

This is where all the fun, tears and stress will be for the duration of your project. Fun of searching, tears of dread when invoices start rolling in, and stress because of shady suppliers.
The W116 still is no Ferrari 250 GTO, and the parts market is mostly a buyers market. Bargain a lot, and bargain hard. If you can, buy in bulk. If not, try to buy in as big batches as you can get, or afford.

Who to buy from? Anyone who has the part you need, and is willing to sell below the price you're ready to pay. Official dealers will be (far) more expensive, but more reliable and mostly providing reasonable warranty and return terms.  The web (eBay, Craigslist and similar sites) is your kingdom, but also your risk and hardly ever with any assurances. I've gone a mixed route of working with four tried and tested MB dealers and scouring the web. Dealer choice was also strategic, to an extent: one in the UK, two in Germany and one in Poland. The German folks were great for the most expensive parts, because of pricing, taxes and discounts. The UK folks were great for initial purchases, before the job started - stuff that I then shipped in, on and with the car. The Polish folks are local to the workshop and therefore best for those smaller, ad-hoc purchases. On scouring the web - you are likely to encounter sellers who think W116 parts are made of platinum, and are trying to sell those at 10x the dealer price. Before you commit, always check in other sources of what the reasonable going rate for that part is. Sure, there are those NLA or super-rare parts which show up once in a blue moon, cost 10x their worth and are gone again in seconds. If you have no choice, you have no choice - buy it (but try bargaining first :)).

I'm sure many purists will disagree, and I'm sure many more experienced folks here will too - but I'm of the opinion that unless you have an unlimited budget, it's OK to compromise in certain aspects and not always go OEM. Yes, it may end up being false economy, but as long as you're aware of that and are OK with the risk, don't sweat it. It's the worst kept secret of the automotive industry, that many so called "OEM like" parts are the exact same thing you'd get at a dealer, just without the OEM branding and often for half the price. Do your research, ask around, see what people are using (not just talking about!), what works, what doesn't. If in doubt, buy OEM.

If you're restoring a very high-mileage car, you may compromise on getting used parts from a lower-mileage car instead of buying new. I think that's false economy, but your budget is what sets the bar here. Stick to it, otherwise it'll end up being an unstoppable runaway freight train. If sourcing used parts, get familiar with local breakers in addition to scouring the web.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

ptashek

Sourcing parts ("floyd111" edition)
For any new restorer's sake, having a great passion for W116, plus a large disposable income, is highly preferable. O yes, and time.. lots of available time.
If you're gonna attempt a restoration on a human budget, sourcing parts is big issue. The more detailed the resto, the more parts you'll need, the better shape they need to be in.
For amateurs like me among you, let me tell you loudly: There are way more parts in that car than you could ever imagine!

After doing what Ptashek told you to do, make lists..

1. NLA parts that you must have.
These will take longest to find. They should always be on the forefront of your daily searches.
Making hard choices here can cut off a year from your project.

2. A list of all parts that you need to buy new, MB-made
Use the cheapest supplier, send the complete list out to them for availability and price.
When you can, buy the "almost NLA" parts when you can, and/or if you should.. Don't ship yet.
Buy the rest in bulk, and cut a deal. To be done last. Ship together with the "almost NLA parts"

3. A list of all parts that you may buy aftermarket
Study and choose. Buy all from 1 supplier if possible, in one go and ship together.

4. A list of all parts that you can, or must buy second-hand
Learn the reality of wood, vinyl, velour and leather replacements and restorations. Read blogs.

5. Keep a well-updated stock list, combined in a list that includes the first 4 lists.

Sourcing parts is a lifestyle, a mission, that requires enormous amounts of time, detail and persistence. The savings that can be had can be 75% to 35%, depending on your location. I am batting for a 50% saving on all items MB-listed under 150 euros All items that are listed above 150 euros (and there are many) need to be 50-75% cheaper where possible.

Needless to say, that doesn't always work.
Some stuff simply needs to be bought at top dollar. Learning to distinguish among those costly occasions is a matter of study, agendas, disposable income and time.
Every single part on that car has it's own market story/situation. Know each story.

If you immerse yourself in these searches, you'll learn quickly to find the cheapest MB-suppliers of regular stuff.
See http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/reviving-old-topics-overpriced-stealerships-the-best-alternate-sources!/msg120370/#msg120370
Don't think you're the first to find ECS or SJS. There are way more sources.

Items under 150 euros: Take your cheapest supplier's MB database (anywhere/worldwide) as a benchmark, remove taxes and remove 20%. That is your hard ceiling. Always pay that, or less.

If you only have an hour per day, that's OK, but make it count, and choose an hour that places you 2100 EU time or 2100 USA time EU time. Best for ebay shopping
Sundays must be a parts-search day. Keep time zones in mind, depending on where you are. USA, 12.00-1800, EU, 1200-1800.

Learn to use eBay filters and servers for different results Always advise sellers to opt out of the Global Shipping Program. It's theft. If not, don't buy when possible.
Needless to say, buy within your own continent. So many times, shipping savings balance out part savings. But, that is not a rule at all! Always check.

www.ebay.de: "select Europe only" twice a day:
www.ebay.de : select "germany only". Twice a day
www.ebay.fr.. basically dead. select France only. Once a month
www.ebay.es: select spain only" Once a week.
www.ebay.it: select italy only: twice a month.
www.ebay.uk: results are included in other searches.
www.ebay.com.au: Select Australia only.: once a week.

Alternate sites
I never use Craigslist.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de :twice a  day
www.gumtree.com.au, once a week
www.marktplaats.nl, once a week
www.2ehands.be, twice a month.

For those extra, desperate searches:
http://sp.olx.com.br
http://allegro.pl/

The amount of listings that are out there is enormous. The problem is that you won't need 99% of what is on offer. Wrong part, or wrong price. With so many possible keywords, my searches contain internationally identical keywords like W116, A116, 280s, 280se, etc.  "W116" is the most effective keyword, with the maximum of results. Other words are "mercedes vintage" (outside ebay.de) and "Mercedes rar", "mercedes sammler" for ebay.de Part numbers get searches like A1163332211, A116 333 22 11, 116 333 22 11, 116 333 2211, 116-333-22-11 On eBay, it's the same thing, but add "mercedes" in front of the numeric.

Once you start searching, the first weeks will be about getting into the rhythm, but most importantly, it a process of checking ALL listings, at least once.
After that, you simply select "newly listed" for each fresh search, cutting future search times per source by 99%

If you thought that eBay tricks were going to solve your parts issues, think again. In general, eBay sucks for this job.  W116 parts are nearly always overpriced beyond belief. Days, weeks can go by without a single hit. The amount of aftermarket parts is a nuisance, and 99% is listed again and again. eBay is pretty useless as well, when it comes to parts under 75usd. Shipping costs and sourcing efforts ruin everything. Naturally, all these realities change when you're looking for aftermarket or used parts. That's where eBay offers much better results.

As far as statistics go, the honesty levels on all of these sites are 99%
(I have not yet bought from the latter 2)
All 200 suppliers on all these websites have sent me the goods as promised.
(Paypal is a costly guarantee in a world where honesty is a 99% given.)
But then again, I do not buy from Craigslist

Exceptions I saw were when I bought an Onkyo amp in Belgium. Not W116 related, and the amp still arrived. (but non functional)
Twice, I was promised an item, but the seller decided to give it to someone else
3 ebay disputes, got paid twice. eBay messed up the 3rd claim. Lost 50usd.
That's the score after some 200 purchases.

Search always in German and English keywords alike.
French , italian and Spanish language offers are very rare. Don't bother unless you're desperate.
Think of the millions of people on the planet, and imagine how many millions of situations any of them non-ebay savvy, non mechanically trained people may advertise stuff they find in basements.
"W116 Transmission governor" may be sold under the MB number-only, or under "vieille piece Mercedes"
The more money a part is worth to you, the more these variable searches matter.

Google photos can be great, and often is a great tool for finding photos quickly, when using regular or strange keywords.
Use it daily. But, for those hard searches, don't rely on Google photos alone. So many parts are offered/sold without a photo-tag!
Always check the first 10 text/result pages. Memorize and learn to ignore websites that keep popping up, whatever the question was.

I have spoken about background searches before.


  • You may try sending out mass-emails to W116-related part sellers for parts they were not offering
  • Always check the backdrop of photos people use to sell items. There may be stuff hiding in plain sight.
  • If anyone sells a NOS part, always ask if they have more.
  • Place free ads where you can, offering to buy NOS W116 stuff.
  • Make clear you are NOT a trader and explain straight up why and how you decide on prices offered. Offer prices near your "hard ceiling" and stick to them.
  • Don't overpay because of convenience or impatience, but only if you are sure it won't pop up again soon.
  • Beware of NOS Cosmetic parts. Make sure sellers are trustworthy and always get high-res photos first. Take your time checking photos!
  • First time sellers, outside Paypal can be risky. I keep a 500usd ceiling for such purchases, or I won't sleep at night.
  • You can first order and ship a few small items, and see how it goes, before ordering the bulk of it.
  • It's better to lose a retaining-downpayment, then to lose 500usd!
  • Sellers that offer a pick-up purchase tend to have less to hide.
  • Eastern European Sellers have proven to me to be as reliable as others, be it it seems scarier and sometimes slower.

Shipping
When you start a project like this, start well. Do not delay building a shipping infrastrucuture

Postal/courier

  • Learn about Postal rates in the 5 most likely countries
  • Always insist sellers use Postal services where possible.
  • Always verify shipping rates offered. Put your foot down and negotiate a refund when rates are lower than expected.
  • If you have a company, or a friend with a company, arrange for international pick-up contracts with DHL and TNT.
  • Fedex, UPS and others like them only offer useless contracts to the likes of us.

International Cargo

  • The same contracts are available for ocean cargo and air cargo. Spend ample time comparing the rates per kilo starting from different countries.
  • Compare at least 3 cargo shippers. I have, and find that there can be only 1
  • Keep checking shippers'rates. They cheat a lot, the moment people simply order a pickup without a clear quote first.
  • Try shipping agents as well. I use them happily.
  • Do not use couriers for cargo shipments.
  • Always insist shipping companies give you a FINAL price per shipment, door-to-door, including all extra costs and sales taxes over those costs, including clearance fees, EXCLUDING import taxes and sales tax over imports.
  • Only then can you divide kilos/final price, that will give you a final price-per-kilo rate.
  • Cargo, unless items are very large, is of no use, unless you ship over 50KG
  • 100KG per shipment is the sweet spot. Anything bigger is a bonus, but consider spreading your purchases over 100KG batches when economically viable.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

ptashek

Execution and oversight
As Stan mentioned, make sure to have a regularly updated parts list, and a record of all expenses for the project. I personally have a 10+ tab spreadsheet, and can account for every cent spent. Fail to do that, and you'll be in trouble in no time. Apply common sense :)

Make sure that your contract with the workshop includes a clause on documenting the project - as they say on the web: "pics, or it didn't happen". Photographic documentation is invaluable for such work. Insist on it, and make sure it's produced as the project progresses. Any workshop worth their salt will make documentation during disassembly, just so they can put the car back the same way. I personally have close to a 1000 images for my project, many of which are on this thread. You may ask "why would I need any of that if I don't plan to sell the car anyway?", which brings us to the next point.

Keep your workshop honest - even the most reputable workshop will cut corners if you don't pay attention. That's just the way it is.
So, demand pics, and either get someone to, literally, audit all work done for you at regular intervals, or do it yourself. It gets tricky if your project is out of country, or state. You'll have to find a way.
But don't micromanage, don't hang on the phone or onsite every day, let the folks work too - after all, they're the professionals. Trust, but verify.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

karmann_20v

Very valuable information, thank you gentlemen for taking the time to share your visions.

Diesel 617

Excellent guide, This post should be stickied.

Another source that I have seen w116 appear on is row52.com

You can even hire someone to pick and ship the part you looking for, or head to the yard yourself to pick it.
X3 1980 300SD Blown Heads, trans -Retired
1980 450SEL Parted out/Scrap
1980 450SEL to Diesel Parted Out/Scrap
1979 280SE Euro Spec Cloth Seats Sold
1979 300CD Daily Driver - Sold


Inventory of w116 Parts
[url="https://www.ebay.com/usr/vintagepartsandstuff"]https://www.ebay.com/usr/vintagepartsandstuff[/url]

floyd111

One thing I have said on other threads before, is that when you start with a full resto, do not choose the car you already own, simply because you already own it. It could be wiser to park it for parts, and get another one that suits better.
When you do a project like this, you need a chassis first. One that has hard metal. Massive money can go into new sheetmetal or reparing a rusty chassis.
Avoiding that mistake is an excellent start on your way to save money.
I made that mistake, that's how I know.

UTn_boy

All of this is invaluable information, and necessary to carry out the type of restoration that one has in mind.  However, I have to disagree with the part about a budget.  I've been restoring customers' cars for nearly 20 years now.  (my own, too).  The plain and simple truth is that "restoration" and "budget" do not and can not exist in the same sentence or idea. 

The only way a budget can be useful in restoring a W116 is to set a budget of some hideously high amount for the particular type of job/restoration that one has in mind.  For arguments sake, let's say$200,000.  I know that with parts, labor, and jobs that are sourced out (paint, chrome, wood, etc.) that $200,000 gives more than enough room for a restoration (complete). Granted, most people won't go for the types of restorations I do, especially on a W116.  I don't normally do "mini" restorations, or "half way" restorations because more often than not, the car is too rough to take any short cuts on. We all know how a W116 doesn't usually age gracefully.  Don't get me wrong, I understand that other car owners don't want to spend a lot of money, or maybe they can't afford to do the car all the way.  I also understand that some cars literally don't need anything other than paint and/or some mechanical work.  Even with the better examples, one simply can't set a budget of something like  $15,000 and expect to have a finished car. Granted, if you live in Poland or Bolivia, then labor is very inexpensive, and the aforementioned figure may prove to be useful.  Regardless, my point is that   9 times out of 10, I can't help someone that comes to me with a budget of $10,000-$15,000 that expects a completely restored car....inside out, underneath, nut and bolt, or part way.  It's literally impossible, yet it happens often. Unfortunately, some think it is possible. What usually happens is that the reality of it all comes to light, and then the project is abandoned and/or sold.  In some cases, I've seen people sink $100,000 into a car that's only worth $30,000 when it's finished, maybe less.  They then try to sell the car for what they have in it.  Obviously, that doesn't ever work out, either. 

In essence, for a W116, a good paint job in which one pays a shop to de-trim and re-trim the car before and after will set you back around $12,000-$15,000.  (East coast pricing in the U.S)  Stay away from large cities like New York, Atlanta, Miami, Washington DC, and Los Angeles/San Francisco areas.  The prices and labor rates in those areas are usually double. 

An interior re-trim/recovering will set one back around the same at $12,000- $15,000.  This includes around 40-60 hours of labor, new seat upholstery, horse hairs, carpeting, wood refinishing, new dash, new headliner, recovering of "B" pillars, re-dying and/or replacement of any colored interior bits that are damaged/cracked, new parcel shelf carpeting, new windshield and windshield seal, and a new rear glass seal.  Most places won't go that far, but that is the only correct way to do the job.  Naturally, the amounts can vary if other parts are needed or if other parts are found to be broken and/or un worthy along the way.  Also, while the dash is out, the climate control system should really be removed and cleaned/repaired as needed. 

Just be aware of the fact that nothing done the correct way comes inexpensively.  There are many other "shops" that will promise you the moon, but the end result is that you'll get what you pay for. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

daantjie

Good points all. I've come to the realization that for me at least it is good enough to have  a car that runs nice and tight. I am no fan of garage queens nor do I have nearly enough budget for a full resto. My car needs a full respray but then I'll loathe to drive it and get the paint buggered up so a bit of a catch 22. Made easier by the fact that I can't afford it anyway  ;D
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

ptashek

Quote from: UTn_boy on 25 April 2016, 09:56 AMThe plain and simple truth is that "restoration" and "budget" do not and can not exist in the same sentence or idea.

I must disagree.

Restorations are a multi-step process and you must, or at least should aim to have a budget of some kind set for each major step (e.g. suspension, paint, interior). Even if you define "restoration" as an all-out, no-limits, no-regrets type of project, quantifying your potential expense helps making the call on whether to proceed or not, comparing quotes from workshops and making sure you're not, to put it in direct terms, getting screwed over royally (this industry is rife with cowboys of all kinds). To me, it's just a crucial part of due diligence.

Honest question - In your 20 years restoring cars, how many customers came by with a blank cheque and just said: "do it"?
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

UTn_boy

Well, therein lies the problem.  The car owners budget for each part of the restoration is usually unrealistic.  For instance, a customer may come to me with a budget of $6,000 for the interior restoration, and they expect that the $6,000 will be all that is needed for the entirety of the job, materials and labor.  In reality, $6,000 will only buy the materials needed to do the interior restoration.  What about the rest of the job? If a budget is absolutely necessary, then one must set the budget for each job at high dollar amounts......amounts in which we both know will be nearly impossible to exceed.  For a W116, I'd recommend setting a budget of $15,000 for the interior work and materials. The actual job will finish out at around $12,000-$13,000, and the likelihood of exceeding the $15,000 is practically non existent. 

Due diligence is certainly the responsibility of the car owner.  In addition, when setting a budget, the car owner must expect to pay a lot of money to have the job done correctly regardless of the car and the car owner's domicile.  If a car owner comes to a shop with set budgets half of actual cost for each job or the job as a whole, then the shop owners will likely decline their patronage.  That happens often, but I always make it a point to explain to them why their expectations are unrealistic.  I certainly understand trying to get a good job done at an affordable price, but anyone that can execute any job on something like a W116 correctly will be few and far in between.  It's a specialty niche, and a specialist type of undertaking.  Consequently, specialist prices must be expected.  This is why budgets usually don't have any use when a restoration is being considered, especially on a W116.  Just because the labor time guide for a W116 says it takes an hour to remove a front seat doesn't mean it'll take an hour 40 years later when everything is stuck or rusted.  That is why most specialists will only charge by the hour.  It simply takes as long as it takes. 

PTASHEK, the answer to your question is simple. 99% of my customers approve of an "open checkbook" restorations.  Those types of restorations are all that I do, and they're all I've ever done, and it's what I love doing because no one else around here knows how to do it correctly. The end results are euphoric to me, and I live for those moments.   It would honestly be easier for me to tell you how many didn't leave a blank check.  Don't get me wrong, though, I'll do anything a car owner wants as long as they agree to have other things taken care of along the way that would be deemed necessary.  For instance, if they just want a new dash installed, they are asked to allow for replacement of all of the vacuum actuators (on automatic climate control cars).  If they decline, then I explain to them that when they are eventually replaced that they'll have to pay to have the dash removed and installed again.  Sometimes I'll respectfully decline their business altogether if it's something worse than a climate control issue.  For instance, I will not renew the front pump seals on a transmission without them approving to reseal the whole transmission.  If I don't, then it'll leak somewhere else, and they'll expect me to repair it for nothing. 

Just be careful out there, fellas.  PTASHEK couldn't be more correct in what he said about the industry being rife with cowboys of all kinds.  They'll take you money and give you nothing or very little in return. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

ptashek

For me there's a difference between setting unrealistic budgets and pushing for a job to fit them, and researching the job, and setting realistic budgets. On that I think, we agree entirely. That's the only way to do anything. And I have a lot of respect for a tradesman who will rather decline a job with an unrealistic budget set, than take it just to get the business. It's not an easy thing to do, let alone do repeatedly.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

UTn_boy

Then you're one of the very few that understands why unrealistic budgets are a deal breaker.  I suppose many owners in the U.S. are used to the costs involved in restoring an old American car, but as of late even American cars are getting horribly expensive to restore.   

In the end, it doesn't matter if you want a 280S or a 6.9.  Buy the best example you can afford/find.  Generally, the more you pay into the initial investment the better off you'll be in the long run.  As cliche` as it is, I cannot stress enough the saying "there is nothing in this world more expensive than an inexpensively bought Mercedes".  If you pay $600 for a W116, then there are many reasons is was so cheap.....bad reasons. 

At this point in time, just a paint job alone will exceed the value of a W116 in most regions.  So when a restoration on a W116 is in the plans, have no expectations of "flipping" the car when finished, and be comfortable with knowing that you'll have much more in the car than it's worth.  The experience is much more enjoyable this way.  :)
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo