1977 Jaguar Series 11 5.3 V12 sedan......

[AMG69]

 got overtaken by a BEWDIFUL 1977 Series 2 Jaguar V12, silver, mint condition; magic looking, on the Perth freeway Sunday evening.  15 mins later - said V12 was motionless in emergency lane with the bonnet up.     Oh dear.  I DO love those Jag's but, well, the 6.9 just cruised on effortlessly, happily without a hint of drama.....I DO love the 6.9 

[116Benz]

And it's said that theres a sense of drama with a Jaguar...They must be right...Lord Lucas of the dark strikes again!

[Bandolero]

Yeah, I read a road test where they said the Jaguar seemed a bit nicer to drive (for the testers).
HOWEVER, history has shown that they were actually a "piece of crap!"
The Mercs were so much more reliable.
The Mk1 XJ6 was the best, the Mk2 had problems and the Mk3 was worse!!

Long live the Mercs!

[bahnstormer109]

I have a sales brochure from the mid 70s for the jag SII XJ and XJS.

it actually is a comparison between the jags and the equivalent W116 and W107 SLC.

its very entertaining. jaguar goes through the cars section by section and argues how the jag is better than the benz in every respect.

it has some power/ torque graphs too and they are calibrated to grossly exaggerate the torque advantage of the 4.2 jag 6cyl over the M110, which actually has more power despite being nearly half the size.

heres some quotes: "the Jaguar 4.2 offers comparable performance to the Mercedes 280SE. In fact it is only when the V8 engined S Class cars are brought into the picture that the Jaguar 4.2 figures are significantly bettered. But while there is no doubt that Mercedes S Class cars offer high performance, the Jaguar V12 takes performance into new realms".

and heres quite a funny one: "Perhaps the most impressive facet of the Mercedes 450SLC is its sheer engineering competence. But many people demand more than competance from a car".

and the price list for 1976:
Jag 4.2: $19,995
MB 280SE: $24,000

Jag V12: $22,700
MB 450SEL: $32,687

Jag XJS: $29,950
MB 450SLC: $36,784

the brochure argues quite well the price advantage of the jags being significantly cheaper while still offering equal and better performance, safety, luxury and specification.

quote: "In the previous section there is more than enough information to suggest that Jaguar is comparable, often superior to Mercedes. In the case of performance and handling information, it is the factory figures and independant authority. not the evidence of "opinion". When the question of price is introduced, the Jaguar's advantage is dramatically increased".

ive been collecting benz brochures of all models and MB compares themselves to nothing. they go into sometimes minute details through every respect of the car from why the type of doorhandles were designed the way they were to why the tail lights were designed how they were and that theres a foot rest for the drivers left foot and how it all contributes to a safe and relaxed driving experience.

MB never seems concerned about what anyone else is doing, they just state that their cars are the best, because they say so! end of story.

[Grant V]

I was taken for a drive recently in a Series 3 Daimler Double Six and was truly amazed with the ride. I think the ride is every bit as good as the 6.9, but somewhat firmer. However, the 6.9 is so much more spacious and fitted out with good old Bosch systems, unlike the Lucas 'lucky packet' electrics.

The old fashioned, pre-bean counter German engineering was superlative and nothing was under engineered. My father related a story to me once, where he gained respect for German engineering:

It was in the late 50's and my father and his gang of friends all had British bikes. There was a challenge to see who could get from Warmbaths (about 120km) to Pretoria the fastest, and the end point would be the old 'Doll's House' road house. Everyone stood around waiting for the finishers, and the first bike to arrive was a BSA, or Norton, or some British bike. It had been ridden hard and refused to idle, as smoke poured off the oil stained engine. The second bike in, shortly after, was a BMW, which stopped, got hoisted onto it's stand and stood idling with that unique BMW 'putter-putter', and not an oil leak in sight. My old man said that the BMW really impressed him, even though it was a hugely expensive bike compared to the British stuff, but then again, all quality products are.

[Bandolero]

Yep, I've got the same brochure, what a load of old cobblers!!!

As I said before, history has shown which is the better car!

[Martin 280s]

I was taken for a drive recently in a Series 3 Daimler Double Six and was truly amazed with the ride. I think the ride is every bit as good as the 6.9, but somewhat firmer. However, the 6.9 is so much more spacious and fitted out with good old Bosch systems, unlike the Lucas 'lucky packet' electrics.

The old fashioned, pre-bean counter German engineering was superlative and nothing was under engineered. My father related a story to me once, where he gained respect for German engineering:

It was in the late 50's and my father and his gang of friends all had British bikes. There was a challenge to see who could get from Warmbaths (about 120km) to Pretoria the fastest, and the end point would be the old 'Doll's House' road house. Everyone stood around waiting for the finishers, and the first bike to arrive was a BSA, or Norton, or some British bike. It had been ridden hard and refused to idle, as smoke poured off the oil stained engine. The second bike in, shortly after, was a BMW, which stopped, got hoisted onto it's stand and stood idling with that unique BMW 'putter-putter', and not an oil leak in sight. My old man said that the BMW really impressed him, even though it was a hugely expensive bike compared to the British stuff, but then again, all quality products are.

Grant,
I used to have a 1973 BMW R75/5, smooth quick and reliable. I sold it though...to buy the w116! Pity, I didn't have the pennies to keep it although I do still have a 1938 R51 to restore! I can imagine it'll be just the same.

[adamb]

While I'm very much a Merc man, it is generally argued by people who've experience both the W116 and the XJ6 of the period that the ride quality of the Jag was better despite using, in essence, a similar trailing arm set-up at the rear.

It goes without question that the MB is a more bulletproof car in reliability stakes. But the Jag does have a truly great driving position (so long as it's not a manual) and is plushly done out compared to our venerable W116.

But in the end, there is no need to check which way I swing, folks....

[john skene]

I read the English 'Motor?" road test comparison between the 6.9 and the Jaguar V12 at the time (I may still have it in my collection), the article was called something like "Mailed Fist vs Velvet glove", or "Mailed Fist in a Velvet Glove".
First impressions were the 6.9 was faster accelerating, handled better , had a more urgent feel etc, but the actual road comparisons quickly showed the V12 was better in all departments. Pity about its build quality though.

[johnnyw116]

the 6.9 is much better than the jaguar v12 a good 6.9 with no emission crap on the engine is verry hard to beat with speed