Should I?

[Scotty]

I am looking at a 1978 280SEL, 300,000km, gunmetal(?) grey, full sheepskin covers, non functioning a/c, and needing a bit of suspension work. The body is straight, rust free with good paint/interior.

What to look for when purchasing?

All advice gladly taken

Scotty

[beagle2022]

Hi Scotty.  I have a 1979 280sel with 300,000k.  Here is what I have learned (in no particular order):
* The engine is really too small for the task at hand if you want to load the car up and hit the hills.  It revs beautifully, with max torque at about 4500rpm, but very little low down.
* The sheepskins probably cover as-new upholstery if it is MB Tex.  Mine had sheepskin covers when I bought it and I was amazed at the way they had preserved and protected the upholstery underneath.
* A 35 year old car has 20 things wrong with it, you just don't know what they are yet. So don't expect a trouble-free ride to begin with.
* Anything made of rubber needs replacing.  That includes all the brake lines, the fuel lines and several kilometres of vacuum lines.
* Your car has rust.  You just haven't found it yet.  In Oz we benefit from dry weather and unsalted roads in winter.  But these cars are poorly protected against corrosion and have lots of nooks and crannies where rust will inevitably occur unless the car has lived in a bubble.  A 300k car isn't one of those.
* These cars want to be driven fast for long distances.  Don't mollycoddle it.  They improve with highway use.
* The Kjet fuel injection system is really straightforward and robust, but you have to get your head around how it works or it will drive you nuts. Unless yours has been really well maintained it is highly likely that the fuel accumulator, the warm up regulator and auxilliary air valve will all probably be dodgy.
* I have pulled all the stupid 1970's anti pollution gear off mine and it is much happier for that.
* If properly maintained the car will go for another 200k.  The M110 engine is quite straightforward to maintain. Early on learn how to adjust the valves.
* There is a really poor design flaw in the exhaust on right hand drive cars (in OZ and UK).  There is a Y piece just after the split manifolds that goes into one pipe for a metre and then splits again back into a dual system.  The y piece at the front will fail.  If there is any exhaust noise near the manifold that will be the problem.  The part is no longer available so you will need some skilled exhaust shop to fix it.
* Expect awful fuel consumption.  This wasn't an issue when these things were designed.  The car is wildly over-engineered and very heavy.  There is virtually no difference between the 2.8 and the V8's in real life use.
* The self-levelling suspension at the rear may be a real issue for you.  Get it checked out or be prepared to spend north of $1k to sort it out.
Good luck in your decision.

[Scotty]

Thanks for that reply. The case for the negative - if I may, but it has served to 'level' me. Considering it has some
but not all of these problems, and if the body interior is excellent, then 4K is too much ?

[daantjie]

Beagle has given excellent tips here.
If you are not technically inclined and have to farm out the labour, these cars can be massive money toilets.
Try and knock off a grand or two off the price if you can, as you will certainly put at least that back in.
Having said that, there is nothing quite like the ride on a nicely sorted w116.

Cheers

[gf]

For a weekend driver the 280 SE when they are properly sorted are are fun to drive, great ride on well paved roads. sporty handling with a great boaty ride! relaxing and comfy too on long trips. The engines tend to be quite tappety and tractor sounding. Theyre quite noisy engines. The engines can rev like hell and love it but feeble up hills.
If you want torque for dealing with steep hills look for a 450.

If you have space and time anyone can learn to work on most aspects of these cars drastically reducing running costs. If you don,t learn to fix stuff yourself on even a good one it will most likely get very expensive. Some parts are horrifically expensive, many can be acquired cheaply from wreckers. As far as classics go the best bit is if you want it its basically avaliable.


Rust- Id start at the boot. Most w116s ive seen have had their ass ends rusted out due to old worn/ faulty trunk lid and tail light seals. pull all the stuff out of the boot if u can lift the carpet. poke around the  black sound deadener paint in particular.
other favourite areas Under side of doors, round the bases of pillars, footwells particularly where they meet the wheel arches.
Are the door seals original? if so they need replacing ASAP.
Check the condition of all the chrome as to put right will cost a lot! to rechrome a bumper I think was 500 dollars or more.
As you would have noticed these cars have a lot of bright work!

Central locking issues are really common and can be annoying to find and fix.

When properly maintained they are reliable. Ive had only one break down in 6 years or so of owning mine which was my own fault for not screwing down a ballast resistor.


Look over carls posts too they should be useful.

[Beastie]

Also check the firewall for rust behind the sound deadening pad and check in and around the fuel filler door as there is a drain in there which often clogs and causes water to build up. You can reach into the fuel filler door and find crumbly bits of rust with your bare hands, and you can check the firewall by just pressing against the pad with your hand the sides of the firewall where it meets a-pillar area. If there's rust behind there, when you press the sound deadening pad, there will be a crumbling feeling, like crushing a packet of SAO crackers.

I own a nice 280SEL which has been well maintained mechanically but it has a couple of minor dents and scrapes and it has some rust in the areas I just mentioned. It's a nice car with an interior in great shape, and there's really nothing too majorly wrong with it. I bought it from a dealer about two years ago for just over 2k. It had 214,000km on it at the time. So I would say 4k for a similar car with another hundred thousand clicks would be too high, unless it has been rebuilt and resprayed to a very high standard and looks immaculate.

Many people feel that the M110 engine is unsuitable in such a big heavy car.  If you want some real-world performance and usable torque, or if you want to routinely drive up long, steep hills or want to drive a lot on the freeway at 110 you'll probably feel the same way and might want to consider a 450 or even a 350. A forum member recently bought a 280SE and liked the W116 a lot but he almost immediately decided that he wanted to sell it and to buy one with a V8.

I like the sixes because they are a lot lighter over the front end which I think improves the handling a bit, and generally I like sixes and the way they rev as opposed to the lazier lower revving burbling V8's. The fact that insurance and registration is cheaper, and the fact that they go through slightly fewer consumables like oil and spark plugs and leads and all little things like that is right up my alley too because I am a cheapskate.

[Greg]

Hi Scotty, one has to drive the car and accept it for what it is, a 280SE / L

I tow my caravan ( 998kg) with my 280SE, two adults, my Son and family dog and fully loaded boot.
On the flat I cruise at 100Km/h, uphill she drops, this is expected. I live in Gauteng where the altitude is 1600M and the air is this and dry, she still cruises at 100Km/h.

Having said that, the mileage is just under 200,000Km, I fitted new head gasket just for piece of mind and had the radiator cleaned out.

280SE's are great cars, well balanced on power to weight ratio with standard gearing.

BTW, I removed the crappy "Y" piece in the exhaust, fitted manifolds from a W123 280E and had new twin pipes made at an exhaust shop. Now she sounds good also.

Cheers
Greg

[ptashek]

For examples on where to look for rust, have a look at some of the pics in the restoration thread for my 450, or any of the other restoration threads of which there are a few.
http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/the-'goldilocks'-restoration-thread/msg116541/

[Scotty]

Thanks for all the replies and good advice. I drove the 280SEL Monday and it was lovely, with plenty of power, which surprised  me after comments here. The engine was noisy, but smooth and shifted well, The exhaust had been upgraded and the car presented very  very well. But the rear suspension is buggered and it has no functioning a/c. Before this owner was a guy who had it in storage for 10 years. So 12 years with about 1000 km on it. I politely passed thinking there were still lots to go wrong.

but for anyone out there who wants one and can do the work - the body condition is fantastic.

The search goes on....