After some serious deliberation.... I want a W116. Some help?

[nickc]

Hi all,

New here, been lurking around for a while, doing my research. Basically, I had my heart set on a W108, but decided it's just not a car that's really suited to being driven every day, parked in the sun, etc. So, I looked at W124s, but came back bored and disenheartened.

Then, I saw a midnight blue W116 280SE, and fell in love. It strikes me as exactly what I need - classic, with chrome and a timeless shape, modern enough inside to have things like cruise control, sunroof, etc, and a big four door sedan. Now, I see myself as having two choices here. I also currently have a 2 year old Nissan X-Trail (compact 4WD thing), that I plan on driving until I can find an MB that suits, and then sell the Nissan.


Option 1
So, I would have the time to potentially do a bit of work on the W116 and still have a vehicle, and also can wait a long time to buy the RIGHT car. It seems as though good colour combos are rare - there's one for sale that I like in Australia at the moment, a sort of sky/iridescent blue with ivory interior, immaculate car. It doesn't seem like we got many darker coloured cars here. I would love a black, or midnight blue example.

So, part of me is tempted to buy a $2k car, that is mechanically A1, in a less than desirable colour (brown) with maybe a bit of paint fade, just a poorly presented example with a good interior, strip it, have it sprayed in the colour of my choice, and put it back together. I can't do the paint, but I can strip the car and put if back together pretty comfortably, and can get it painted fairly cheaply. Part of me thinks this is a mammoth mission, given that they're not exactly a simple car, and having done interior re-installs on Peugeots and Volvos, they were nightmares (shitty plastic that gets warped).

I think I'd be looking at $2k for the car,  $2.5-3k for the respray (one of my father's employees is a spraypainter), and maybe another few thousand tidying up things like chrome trim, maybe new carpets, odds and ends that need work. Total would be under $10k, but that's not taking into account my time and labour.

Option 2
The other option, is to buy a near concours example here, as the most expensive ones are still within my budget. Looking at around $8-10kAUD for a good one. Obviously this saves a lot of time and effort, and is probably the preferable option.

Another question - 280 or 450. Ideally I'd like an SE, no need for the LWB, but I'm not aiming for sportscar performance, just a relaxed cruiser that looks the goods and can take me around in absolute comfort and serenity. I read an article (on this site) claiming that performance gaps between the two are not huge. Maintenance costs - is the 450 considerably more expensive than the 280 to run and get parts for? Can anyone give me real world consumption figures?

Any other advice greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Nick (soon to be a W116 owner)

[TJ 450]

If you're used to interior work on Peugeots and Volvos, pulling apart a W116 is far more logical and satisfying and although there are a few "plastic-breaking" caveats, most things don't break like they always do on those other cars! These cars really are not that complex, they simply appear to be (unless you are comparing it to say, an EH Holden). They are just extremely well built.

As for the condition, it really depends on the type of owner that you are. If you are into getting your hands dirty and achieve satisfaction out of that, a less than perfect example might be suitable. If you would rather not get into that, a top example would likely be preferable as you can simply enjoy it and maintain it.

Also, maintenance wise, a 280 would be a lot less expensive. A 450 is a lot quicker and IMHO satisfies the need for speed. The 6.9 takes it over the edge!

Tim

[s class]

There is not really any difference in purchase price between SE and SEL versions.  I've used a 280SE daily for 10 years.  Initially the SE was always fine, but since having kids, I do think it is too small.  The extra space in the SEL really is useful. 

Do search on this site - we've often talked about consumption issues.  The consumption does depend a lot on the state of tune, and wear in the engine, plus the driving style, so you will see a range of reported figures. 

With a 280SE you can expect 12 (gentle driving) to 16 litres (heavy foot, a bit out of tune)/ 100km

Others can chime in here, but a 450 will use 10 to 20% more.

Aside from the different engines, the maintenance costs will be the same. 

I've found the 280SE to be a good choice for daily use, as the better economy is beneficial (I do a lot of mileage), however, the performance is not exactly great.  Try test driving a couple.  If you like the extra power of the 450, and can live with the economy (or lack thereof), then it may be the better choice.

Another comment on economy -

I've found the consumptions of the two engines are similar on the open road at 100km/h plus, its in town in traffic that the 4.5 is a lot heavier than the 2.8.

[bb]

You sound like me 12 months ago 

Believe me, do it properly the first time. I bought a 280SEL 12 months ago in good condition, owned it for 3 months then sold it because it was too fkn slow. In auto form they are almost too slow for daily driving, especially if there is even a slight hill involved.

After that car, the 116 bug had bit me that hard, I went straight to a 6.9.

If I were you, I would bypass the 280 and go for a 450. If you have the bucks, I would be buying a good one straight up and not having to worry about having to fix it up.

[torana68]

450SEL why buy the poverty pack when you can have one with the lot, chalk and cheese to drive , I think there is a good one on Ebay at the moment   

[pez]

Do a 450sel for sure. And spend the dough on the absolute best example you can afford - you are going to spend it anyway, make your life easier and get one that is sorted now and spend the $ keeping it sorted, instead of trying to sort it out yourself.

The extra length of the SEL really is worth it.

I know people will complain, but I would stay away from the 6.9 at this juncture [unless you really have lots of $$$].  Some parts are just  crazy expensive, and the 450 rocks, esp. if you can get a euro version [I can outrun just about any car on the road, except for a modern true sports car].

I get about 15mpg here in the USA [at Denver altitude of 1 mile high], and with the cruise on at a steady 80mph, I can get over 20mpg. I have the car tuned very well and very lean [for the altitude].

And don't make the mistake of buying anything without paying for a serious mechanical and body inspection by someone who really knows the cars - a true MB tech, preferably a good dealer. The money you spend on the inspection will be more than worth it in the negotiation with the owner of a price.

[John Hubertz]

Despite the fact that you are now a declared enemy of mine (and thus, due to my status as a Kentucky Colonel, an enemy of an entire commonwealth of the most grudge-bearing soul-eating bear-wrestling toothless inbred citizens who ever collected guns and divorce decrees) I must as a Kentucky Gentleman and student of the W116 offer you two pieces of advice -

1.  Nothing is so expensive as a cheap luxury automobile - purchase the finest quality machine you can locate and afford.
2.  Purchase the V8 - 350 or 450 or 6.9, and enjoy.  If you choose the smaller engines you will never experience the upside appreciation that the legendary 6.9 offers, but may have a better shot at the "daily driver" status (although, a well-sorted 6.9 IMHO is quite reliable - it is neglect/storage and lack of maintenance that creates nightmarish repair costs)
(sips at a mint julep)

... part of me is tempted to buy a $2k car, that is mechanically A1, in a less than desirable colour (brown) with maybe a bit of paint fade, just a poorly presented example with a good interior, strip it, have it sprayed in the colour of my choice, and put it back together. I can't do the paint, but I can strip the car and put if back together pretty comfortably, and can get it painted fairly cheaply.

My own dear Max: 



Relevant to your "less desireable color" opinion - I must offer the following proof of the beauty of Brown, Glorious Brown.  The tawny color of fine bourbon, fine horses and the stocks of fine Kentucky rifles. 

(eyes a globe and adjusts his rear sights to accomodate the "windage" and drop.... )  Helluva a shot, but if I can't nailya one of my cuzins heyar coud prolly hitcha frum this fur!!

Cuzzins:



Thayz gotta 116 too...

[oscar]

  Them cuzzins look like they got my 350 out back with AMG spoiler 'n' all

Hey nick, I don't know what to tell you except good luck and good choice on a w116 for starters.  Not disagreeing with anything anyone has said, it's all good advice and I think if you get a good example of any of them you'll be happy.  I suppose the best thing would be to test drive a few including the poverty models and see what power and inernal specs you're happiest with.

Not sure which state you're in but these two 450se's in Sydney have been for sale for a while.  I reckon they look the goods with AMG spoiler and you can take or leave the stonegaurds on the lights but I like 'em.  You're right about the lighter colours and lack of darker ones.  My ultimate would be a black on black 6.9 but that aint happening.

http://carpoint.com.au/used-car/MERCEDES/450SE/New%20South%20Wales/csn6182191.aspx
http://carpoint.com.au/used-car/MERCEDES/450SE/New%20South%20Wales/csn5694270.aspx

[GreaseMonkey]

Not sure which state you're in but these two 450se's in Sydney have been for sale for a while.  I reckon they look the goods with AMG spoiler and you can take or leave the stonegaurds on the lights but I like 'em.  You're right about the lighter colours and lack of darker ones.  My ultimate would be a black on black 6.9 but that aint happening.

http://carpoint.com.au/used-car/MERCEDES/450SE/New%20South%20Wales/csn6182191.aspx
http://carpoint.com.au/used-car/MERCEDES/450SE/New%20South%20Wales/csn5694270.aspx

[/quote]Like the Citrus Green one, don't often see that colour, I would ditch the alloys though.
By the way, I have a set of those headlamp stonguards and am still debating whether to put them on the wagon or not.........
Chris M.

[John Hubertz]

Upon serious consideration of the whole "driver 116" issue I think I have an opinion - personally I would also look at (GASP) a really good 6 Cylinder 126 SEL model.  Eyeball zip aplenty, fun AMG tuner looks easily copied, and much more driveable.

The 116 is wonderful, but it cries out "I'm built for the open road" to the point where in-town just isn't that fun.  However, the eyeball screams "WHO CARES!"

I was talking to a gent in a new Bentley Coupe - looked at his car for maybe 3 minutes, he spent at least 5 or 8 looking at mine.  Being a rude, curious type I asked - his yearly PLATE FEES cost more than Max....   $4200 US.  The SALES TAX on that beastie was over $9000 - and I'll bet mine gets more admiring glances.

Ahhhhh   The Yin/Yang Approach/Avoidance of 116dom....



(swiped this gif from another member of this forum tyvm!)  (been too long without it in an active post)

[nickc]

John - your brown 450 actually looks pretty good, I like the ivory/cream interior too.

That citrus green one is nice, in an odd way.

This one is nice as well, Link
Odd colour, but a very tidy interior, and cheap to boot.

But, this, is really what I'm after. If I was in the country, I'd buy it right now.
Link

That to me is perfection. Great colour. Great interior. Looks immaculate, and in my state of residence.

I don't really like W126s. They're a bit too boring, no classic appeal, just looks like a 20 year old Benz. Whereas a nice W116, looks like something special.

[torana68]

ok well Ill try again, Im starting to wonder if mine isnt invisable!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=180286672846
Roger

[nickc]

Sorry Roger, I have seen yours for sale. I just don't have space for two cars, and beige/velour interior is not for me. Nice looking car from the outside though, and sounds it's well sorted mechanically.

I've got plenty of time, as I already have a car, I just want the right one, in the right colour combination.

I've decided to consider both the 2.8 and the 4.5, and look for the right car with either engine. I did some maths, and I worked out that I'm not going to spending that much a week on keeping a 450 full, and it is a badge you can wear a little more proudly.

So, if anyone knows of a black/silver/blue W116 that doesn't have the beige sandy or blue interior, either engine, let me know. I'm prepared to pay good money for one, and whilst I can buy the car before I go back to Australia, I can also do it when I get back, or 6 months after. So, I've got time and money in my hands to devote to getting one (450, fingers crossed) anytime.

I've caught the bug. It started with a silver 300SEL 6.3 that I saw, and was amazed that there were old Benzes that looked that good. So I decided to try and find a W108, which is just too hard to get a good one (right colours, mechanicals, et) and then nearly bought a 300E-24V. Luckily it sold a day before I had someone checking it out.

Then I wanted a car that fitted all my needs. Classic but drivable daily. Large. Comfortable. Reliable. They handle. All the best bits of a modern luxury car put into a timeless body shape... I will be a happy man the day I get mine.

[John Hubertz]

That green is really neat.  Sadly, the lack of power windows really muffs the "lux car" image IMHO.

[Ryan1980]

John,

how do i save that gif video to my computer?

That's awesome haha