Replacing tie rods

[jsilvidi]

I just took my car into the shop and was given an estimate of $800 to put new tie rods on. They were also going to change one of the steering shocks and a part called idler/drag something or other part. Is this price reasonable? I teach and have access to an auto shop at my school. Is this a difficult job to complete? I would like to try and do the job with help from one of the autotech teachers or should I just pay the $800 to get it done professionally.

[koan]

I would like to try and do the job with help from one of the autotech teachers or should I just pay the $800 to get it done professionally.

Replacing both tie rods requires a ball joint separator and removal of four nuts and then a front end alignment (was that included in the quote?).

The steering damper (there is only one) is just two bolts.

The idler arm bushes are one bolt but need some method of getting the old bushes out and new ones in, a press or a bit of threaded rod.

Go to one of the parts websites like autohausaz and add up the prices, see what you're paying for labour.

koan

[s class]

No that is not reasonable at all.

The steering damper costs $50 at various on-line sellers.  It takes 30 minutes to fit.

The tie rods range from $40 each on-line for a cheaper brand to $80 each at the MB dealer.  Allow 15 minutes each side to fit.  

The steering idler arm bush kit costs $35 at the MB dealer and takes 45 minutes to fit.
*OR*
The drag link is what they are referring to.  Not sure what it costs on-line, but not expensive, and again, 30 mins or so to fit.

The time estimates assume you have suiteable tools (ball joint separators etc) which I imagine you auto shoup would have.  

[s class]

OK, koan raises a valid point.  I forgot you will need an alignment.  What does that cost in your area?

[jsilvidi]

Thanks guys for all your input. The price included the alignment. They wanted $500 for labor. I plan on doing the work at my school's auto shop with a friend and I am pretty sure they have most of the necessary tools and equipment. I was going to order the tool that helps to remove the tie rod. I think I saw it online for about $10. Thanks again

[koan]

I plan on doing the work at my school's auto shop with a friend and I am pretty sure they have most of the necessary tools and equipment. I was going to order the tool that helps to remove the tie rod. I think I saw it online for about $10.

Good idea, make sure the the replacement tie rods and drag link come with new nylock nuts.

I have a couple of ball joint separators that I use depending on size and access, both use a screw to apply force.

There is another type that is a fork that is just banged in with a hammer, works but destroys the rubber cover on the joint, OK for this job but not if you want to re-use the joint.

The pros just use two big hammers, press the head of one to one side of the arm and hit the other side of the arm with the other hammer.  Seen it done many times but it never works when I try.

koan

[KenM]

The pros just use two big hammers, press the head of one to one side of the arm and hit the other side of the arm with the other hammer.  Seen it done many times but it never works when I try.

koan

The pro's?     You surely don't mean a Benz dealership, doesn't sound very scientific or particularly graceful, they must have a squillion dollar factory approved tool for the application surely?

[koan]

The pro's?     You surely don't mean a Benz dealership, doesn't sound very scientific or particularly graceful, they must have a squillion dollar factory approved tool for the application surely?

Yeah, you're right, I'm just annoyed that I can't do what I've seen done many times with a couple of hammers at the local garage .

koan

[KenM]

I know what you mean though Koan, during my apprenticeship I worked with a fitter and learned the correct way to disassemble an electric motor and replace the bearings, clean the shafts, remove the bearings carefully with a puller or press etc etc, then  a number of years ago I was working for a bloke who said ' that shit takes too long, you're costing me money'. His process was to get 2 FBH's, one on either side of each bearing outer race and whack the race hard on both sides at the same time, sure enough the race shatters easily, then he digs out the rollers and runner with a screwdriver then grinder off the inner race. It's quick and effective but very uncouth, it somehow just doesn't feel right unless absolutely warranted.

[koan]

I've always admired the two hammer technique on the steering arm or whatever, the guys I've watched do it with ease, one decent bang and ball joint taper pops out.

I suppose it is a bit rough and ready but not as bad your guy's way of getting out the bearing.

koan

[WGB]

The two hammer technique works well enough but you need a good sharp hit.

My best ball joint separator is the two piece pivoted one - particularly with teh bigger joints.

Bill

[s class]

Here's a picture of the ball joint separator I use :



Here's an illustration of it in use, separating the steering knuckle from the upper control arm.  One slips the fork part into the joint, and then tightens the bolt (of the tool) until the joint pops free.  The advantage of this type of unit is here is no damage to any part, including the rubber boot of the ball joint.   



Unlike in this photo, its usually beneficial to not unscrew the joint's nut totally.  Leaving the nut in place, but loosened to have about 5mm clearance between itself and the component being removed will prevent everything falling apart once the joint separates. 

Here's another picture of the unit engaged on the knuckle's lower ball joint.  I have found that these joints can be so tight, that sometimes its necessary to tighten the bolt of the tool quite hard, and then tap down modestly on the top of the tool (red arrow).  The combination of the pre-load from tightnening the tool, and the impact of the modest hit works wonders.  Again, you should rather leave the nut partially unscrewed, as it helps to protect the end of the joint during the separation process :

[WGB]

Same as mine
Bill

[koan]

Ball joints give me trouble, always seems I have to screw up the tool excessively tight.

I leave the nut on to protect the thread, squirt some penetrating oil in there and start tightening. When it gets to what I think is sufficiently tight I leave it and wander off to do something else.  When I come back the joint may have separated but if it hasn't I tighten more and start hitting the arm. Repeat until it comes apart

What techniques do you use? Any secrets I'm missing?

koan

[s class]

That description pretty much sums it up koan.