Hello!
This is my first post on your forum. I am Mercedes enthusiast from Poland, I owe three MB W123 and I am a member of the largest youngtimer Mercedes club in Poland (http://www.w114-115.org.pl).
I decided to ask You a questin on the VIN number stamped on the firewall in the W116 which one of my colleague is going to buy.The car is going to be imported from France, but I am not sure if it was made for France market.The issue is the strange looking stamp of VIN/Chassis number on the firewall . The first 6 numbers are repeated before the proper number stamp.(//)*116.024 *116 024 12 150920* (Sorry there is no picture but I do not know how to paste the pics.)
The VIN number ( the proper part) matches the number on the plate fixed to frame in front of the radiator.
Have anyone of You seen such a numbers?.We are afraid that it may be an effect of illegal number transfer from another car.Unfortunately there is no possibility to check the firewall personally or look for hidden code-cards.
Thank You for any suggestions.
Jacek
As far as I know, the firewall and the plate above the radiator are the only places where the VIN appears on 116's, so there are no other numbers to cross-check.
For your number : 116 024 12 150920
116 = chassis series
024 = 280SE
12 = left hand steering, Automatic transmission
150920 = sequence number. This would make it one of the last german built 280SE's, either late '79 or early '80.
The VIN or Chassis Nr. can also be recorded on various "Data Cards" around the vehicle, such as behind the rear seat backrest, under the front seats, behind the ashtray or under the rear hatshelf.
Does the car have a Service Booklet?
Ideally, it would be good if you could post a pic of this VIN anomaly. :)
Tim
Thank you guys for answers, as I wrote there is no possibility to check the car personaly and look for the hidden code-cards or to check the firewall stamp.
Here is the original post (http://www.w114-115.org.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36941&start=0) from our forum, as the first picture there is a problematic number , you can find also the plates from the frame above the radiator.The car matches the VIN but the number itsefl looks strange.
Hi jacku. Very interesting. I haven't seen this before.
I have a metal stamp set that matches the type/font of the chassis number perfectly, so I could change VIN if I was creative enough.
However, there has been anomalies in the past, the most notable one being CraigS' 6.9 example where a 6.9 of his has crosses stamped over one VIN and another VIN placed below. The rest arouse suspicion sometimes because of the way the number has been stamped by hand rather than machine in earlier examples and can look messy.
One thing is important about the number in the picture. The mercedes circle and star stamp either side of the numbers. These would be much harder to copy. The next thing I would do would be to take off the rubber strip above the number and peel back the firewall a little to look for evidence of welding or anything that might be suspicious but personally I think the number is real and ok.
(http://www.w114-115.org.pl/forum/img01/1225539903_P1010048.jpg)
Thank for your replies, the VIN mystery is almost figured out.As the car is from France I have asked the same question at the French MB forum ( W116)- you can check their answers here (http://mercedes-benz.forumactif.com/w116-f8/starnge-vin-number-stamp-t26095.htm).
Thank You
Jacek
Quote from: s class on 30 November 2008, 10:17 AM[...] 116 = chassis series
024 = 280SE
12 = left hand steering, Automatic transmission
150920 = sequence number. This would make it one of the last german built 280SE's, either late '79 or early '80.
My daily driver (Boris) is # 116 024 22
155504 and, according to the data card (confirmed by the Classic Center) he left the factory on 17.12.1979 - and yes, he is a Stuttgart build. If the sequence numbers follow a strict logical progression regardless of whether left- or right-hand drive, that makes the car in question no later than the first half of December '79.
The photo of the 6.9 with a deleted VIN is interesting. Some 5 or more years ago there was an anthracite 6.9 for sale on ebay in the US also with a similar stamping setup. So if CraigS also has one, thats three 6.9's we know of where the factory made VIN errors. I'll see if I can dig out a pic of the ebay car this evening.
I thought I had a photo of mine somewhere, but can't find it, but it is very clearly a row of XXXX's. It was built on a Saturday so maybe they had a nice lunch at the pub !
LOL, built on a Saturday in Oktober no doubt.
I remember seeing your photo Craig but be buggered if I could find it or a reference to it.
It's on the M100 site somewhere - posted by RonB, but he has too many posts to sift through !
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/mercedes_s_class/other/DSC04921.jpg)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/mercedes_s_class/other/DSC05002.jpg)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/mercedes_s_class/other/DSC05001.jpg)
that's just a sign of these cars being built by hand, clearly on that grey 6.9, someone stuffed up and started imprinting the VIN in the incorrect location, was probably severely repremanded and then the error corrected.
I wouldn't like to try and get it though a police inspection though.
there even exist mercedes without vin numbers and other identification tags on it , in holland the special security service drive cars (also mercedes benz) without vin ot identification numbers , this was told to me by a senior chief of an mercedes benz dealership and we came to this conversation becouse i was going to get some parts for an 560SEL and this car had an not mercedes like vin number so i couldnt order some parts with the vin number , and so the senior chief i was talking to told me the story about the no vin number cars and the strange vin number there was in the car was put in by the holland vehicle department for the first registration when the cars go up for sale ( in auctions )
greetings : johnny .
Quote from: johnnyw116 on 13 July 2010, 04:08 PM
there even exist mercedes without vin numbers and other identification tags on it , in holland the special security service drive cars (also mercedes benz) without vin ot identification numbers , this was told to me by a senior chief of an mercedes benz dealership and we came to this conversation becouse i was going to get some parts for an 560SEL and this car had an not mercedes like vin number so i couldnt order some parts with the vin number , and so the senior chief i was talking to told me the story about the no vin number cars and the strange vin number there was in the car was put in by the holland vehicle department for the first registration when the cars go up for sale ( in auctions )
greetings : johnny .
Geez Johnny, as if it wasn't bad enough turning up to register a car with a XXXXXX across one VIN, I can't imagine I'd be successful in sweet talking an inspector into believing a car without a VIN was legitimate :o
You need one of these sets. I bought a 10mm stamping set some time ago from the bargain bin of a local engineering place. Although I don't have the 'circle&star' stamp, the font is a perfect match for the VIN font.
Unfortunatley the set doesn't come with a number '9'. ::)
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6335/13072010626small.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/13072010626small.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: oscar on 15 July 2010, 11:13 PM
You need one of these sets. I bought a 10mm stamping set some time ago from the bargain bin of a local engineering place. Although I don't have the 'circle&star' stamp, the font is a perfect match for the VIN font.
Unfortunatley the set doesn't come with a number '9'. ::)
How do you use those things? do you just bash them with a hammer onto the metal?
how do you go about alignment, I bet MB had some kind of jig or an automated stamping machine. Manually doing it will always look bodge because the spacing between characters and alignment will never look right.
Yeah bash em with a hammer. One decent knock. But I agree that a jig of some sort would be necessary to get the line and maybe spacing right and a bit of experience with knowing how hard to hit because there's a need to go easier on say number 1 compared to number 8 to get the impression depth even. Ages ago I had a quick bash on povo's wall for the hell of it, guessing alignment and spacing, but it was a pretty average effort and incomplete. Too embarrassing for a photo really, but given patience I think one could make an impressive imitation.
Actually I reckon they might have been done it manually. Alignment and spacing can look fairly ordinary on some examples. Looking closely at the pics in the thread and when I look at mine it looks done by hand with some numbers up higher by a fraction, slight lean on a couple, and the two 1s are close together on three of mine compared to say sclass's last pic. So I assume they were punched one digit at a time. I wondered at one point if something like a typesetting block would've been assembled then the whole thing being given a big whack with a big hammer. But I reckon it would've created too big a dent. I don't know, there's a bit of an elongated dent where these VINs are anyhow.
For pure curiosity it'd be great to know from the horses mouth so to speak what they actually did and at what point on the assembly line the VIN got applied. Also, what penalties/discipline awaited employees who stamped incorrect VINs. :o
Quote from: oscar on 15 July 2010, 11:13 PM
Unfortunatley the set doesn't come with a number '9'. ::)
Odd, my set had a "9" but not a "6"
koan
Awsome! Next time I'm down that way we'll swap ;D
If only Discovery channel made a 2 hour documentary on w116's / 6.9's with actual footage from the 70's at the factory.
I think we would all fall over ourselves to get a copy, but the vast majority of the population would find it mind numbingly boring. ::)
There would also be heated debate about technical errors sited in the program, but thats half the fun..
Quote from: oscar on 16 July 2010, 04:34 PM
Awsome! Next time I'm down that way we'll swap ;D
Um, Oscar, Koan, wouldn't one simply turn the 6 or 9 upside down for the vice versa??
OK I get it, you guys were just looking for someone to put their foot in it (sticks hand up)...
:D Too funny, I almost feel bad. Sorry KenM, wasn't baiting or expecting a response, I just thought everyone would have a larf and mutter 'dufus' at my expense. ;)
Quote from: Major Tom 6.9 on 16 July 2010, 06:05 PM
If only Discovery channel made a 2 hour documentary on w116's / 6.9's with actual footage from the 70's at the factory.
I think we would all fall over ourselves to get a copy, but the vast majority of the population would find it mind numbingly boring. ::)
There would also be heated debate about technical errors sited in the program, but thats half the fun..
That would be excellent. A doco worthy of gospel status to the creation of the w116. Or should I say evolution of the w116. :-\
They couldn't get everything right though, agreed it'd be fun spotting the errors.
I'm disoriented your honour, I share a house with 3 females, it's weak but it's my only defense.. ::)