Looks aside, which headlights are more efficient? The US or Euro models? I got US models and they're hugely ineffective at lighting the road, especially during rainy nights.
I ask this so I'll know which to buy once I can afford to switch them over.
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Alright. Next time I'm gonna buy myself some Euro headlights. But is there anywhere I can buy them at a cheaper cost, besides ebay?
So far, the only place I can find good quality ones are here:
http://www.adsitco.com/category.asp?CID=1492
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You can get them from the classic center in Irvine if your car was originally spec'd with them. I think I paid about $90 each including shipping for new lenses.
And one minute before you click on the costly buy option, take a look at your US sealed beam headlight.
They come in three color temps: 3200, 3400, and 4000K. The latter are much better and to my non-refined taste, very bright. If satisfied, you've solved your problem for $20 plus shipping.
The Sylvania halogen model is Silverstar H5006 for the low beam and H5001 for the high.
(besides, US headlights look sooooo much better ;) )
And euro style headlights headlights will benefit enormously with a new pair of H4 lamps every 3 or 4 years. The filaments sag destroying the pattern.
Quote from: Zagato on 11 November 2008, 04:38 AM
But is there anywhere I can buy them at a cheaper cost, besides ebay?
Sealed beams are more expensive but still go for a reputable manufacturer, or buy over the counter, not nondescript "ebay" stuff.
koan
Here is an option that blows away the others for quality of light output. They just don't have the cool factor of the Euro style lenses.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/csr.html
Michael
Quote from: Patrick Bateman on 11 November 2008, 03:35 AM
The halogen headlights as fitted standard for the rest of the world leave sealed beams for dead in performance.
If your really keen, you can install a high intensity discharge lamp retrofit kit within the standard euro headlights. They are very cost effective these days and are light years ahead of halogens again.
Based on this, HID conversions are illegal in nearly every country.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
Michael
Quote from: Papalangi on 11 November 2008, 09:01 PM
Here is an option that blows away the others for quality of light output. They just don't have the cool factor of the Euro style lenses.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/csr.html
Michael
what a strange site - no matter what computer calculations you use, parabola is the absolute optimal shape to reflect the light.
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Quote from: poul on 11 November 2008, 11:58 PM
Quote from: Papalangi on 11 November 2008, 09:01 PM
Here is an option that blows away the others for quality of light output. They just don't have the cool factor of the Euro style lenses.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/csr.html
Michael
what a strange site - no matter what computer calculations you use, parabola is the absolute optimal shape to reflect the light.
To reflect the light, yes, but the irregular dispersion pattern needs to be compensated for, hence the lens and reflector need to be designed specifically for the dispersion pattern of HID or halogen lamps respectively. Definitely not a simple task. The other thing that needs to be considered is the shield in front of the globe.
Tim
There are "Bosch" HID conversions offered on ebay for a variety of vehicles of asian origin, they are fakes, Bosch don't make such things.
koan
Quote from: nim205 on 11 November 2008, 02:09 PM
And one minute before you click on the costly buy option, take a look at your US sealed beam headlight.
They come in three color temps: 3200, 3400, and 4000K. The latter are much better and to my non-refined taste, very bright. If satisfied, you've solved your problem for $20 plus shipping.
The Sylvania halogen model is Silverstar H5006 for the low beam and H5001 for the high.
(besides, US headlights look sooooo much better ;) )
Yeah, maybe I should just get those updates for the ol' round US headlights. They suit the car better when teamed with the odd bumpers.
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As an ex-owner of a Euro-headlighted W116 in the past, and as a current owner of a US-headlighted W116 in the present, I can claim with certainty that even though my eyes have not gotten younger with time, the brightness of the sealed beam is equivalent to the Euro type bulb.
I will defend this position fearlessly until proof is provided to the contrary (and then I will claim to never have written the lines above).
;)
.
Quote from: Patrick Bateman on 14 November 2008, 09:29 AM
wouldn't it be a boring world if we all felt exactly the same way about everything. ;)
Yes, I feel exactly the same.
;)
I'm in agreement - a modern sealed beam has wildly better aimability and light output then in days of old. Hard to imagine the Euro style performs better - NOW. Before, with halogen a bulb/housing only thing... the old filament USA lamps weren't all that great and I recall euro equipped cars being obviously better.
My SEL can outshine my other two euro-style lamp cars by probably 200 yards as far as signage in the dark - and the city lights are just fabulous! I can see! I can see!
Would I have to replace each entire lamp, or can I just get one of those modern bulbs?
You replace the entire lamp. The sealed beam is called sealed because you cannot separate the reflector, lens, or bulb - they are all one unit.
The cost for one quality lamp is around $20 US. The standard are about $10.
Replacing one is as easy as unscrewing a few screws. You first remove the outer square plastic frame, and then you remove the lamps' retaining door which is a simple chromed ring. If you own a Phillips screwdriver, you can do the job.
Thanks for the pointers! I'll head out and buy myself some sealed beams to replace my dangerously inefficient 70's vintage ones.
BTW - in defense of the old standards... the rationale for the sealed beam regulations grew from the lack of vehicle inspection standards and chronic variation in bulb/headlamp designs in the 1930s in America.
Growing from WWII military standards, the newly formed USA NTSB (highway regulators) made sealed-beam headlamps of standardized sizes mandatory immediately after the war. Conversion costs were nil as the military always demanded sealed-beam lamps and no autos were produced during that period that were not mil-spec.
We retained the standards long after lamp designs were created that allowed for relatively common bulbs (thank you, mercedes/bosch btw) to be a world standard. Price gouging by US automakers is an issue to this day - and any proprietary part is ridiculously overpriced.
Here's a mark VIII like mine - side rear quarter windows? $1232.00 US. Headlamps? (and they fade hideously) $1100 a pair.
American companies are quite shameless at this. The windshield? $225 reproduction, $412 from the dealer.
(http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/1993/Lincoln/13924/1993.lincoln.markviii.6654-300x189.jpg)
Here's the lovely part - 275 HP twin cam 32 V cobra engine - and these are commonly $2000 cars now, as buyers are afraid (like with 6.9s) of the complicated suspensions:
(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1993-98-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-93115151990401.jpg)
Mine sold new (including some dealer installed bits) for $43,000 in 1994... and I'd be lucky to sell it for $1500 now, since the insurance company totalled it due to one flat tire and MAYBE some suspension issues!
Bought General Electric halogen headlights this morning. I was hoping for something higher quality like the GenElect Nighthawk version, but I was told those would require a conversion. As I just wanted something I could plug in, I went with the basic halogens for $18 each.
So far I've installed the driver's side lamp. The brightness is a bit better, but I'll need to change the other too, to notice any big difference. Problem is, the cover for the passenger side lamps has a rusted/stripped screw. I'll have to try and tackled it tomorrow.
The other thing you need to take care of is aiming the head lamps.
You might want to google around to make sure I've got it right but I remember it as being the bright spot set to 1" (or maybe 2") down at 20 feet.
Park twenty feet from a wall. Measure the center of the lens to the ground. Mark this height on the wall. With the lights on low beam, set the center of the bright spot 1" below the mark.
It's a bit trickier to set left/right centering, at least for me. I usually stand well behind the car and sight along both sides looking for the bright spot to extend in a straight line. You don't want it wandering too far left or right.
If you have light fog or mist in your area, you can park in a poorly lit area and stand off to one side and actually see the downward angle of the bright spot. This is my favored method 'cause it's quick and dirty.
My car has Sylvania sealed halogens right now. They are not the best, in fact they have two different beam patterns but I don't worry too much about it as the only stretch of un-streetlighted road I travel is a half mile long.
In the past, I've gone the other way and mounted a rather silly amount of lumens to the front of a car.
I had 3.5 million candle power on the front of my '65 Mustang. So bright that while it lit up stop signs at a distance of more than five miles, any signs that were closer were unreadable. Later I toned it down to just the Cibie Z beams with 55/60 watt lamps and the aircraft landing lights in the grill.
Michael
Reminds me of my 66 Galaxie 500 XL fastback - I got some modified aircraft landing lights and put them in place of the sealed beam highbeams - wow could I get slow morons out of the passing lane - those things would peel paint!
Like you I replaced them, in my case with GE police spotlamps. They were too long-range to be useful as highway high lamps.
(http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/kits/images/Promotional/66galaxie1.JPG) I couldn't find a pic - but here's the year/model/color
390 4 bbl with console and buckets - that was one of the few cars over the years I wish I'd kept.
Quote from: John Hubertz on 18 November 2008, 05:32 PM
Reminds me of my 66 Galaxie 500 XL fastback
Always been a fan of that era Galaxies, '65 four door with dead straight lines my favourite, there were quite a few here (AUS) as it was Fords big car, some with 390s but most 289s.
Only ever spotted one two door here, a convertible, don't know if it came out the factory that way or not. Yellow paint with black hood, not at all attractive.
koan
Better is a question of judgement. ie Is round Better than Square? Is a halogen globe better than a tungsten globe? Is a sealed bem tungsten better than a sealed beam halogen?
To make some direct reference to the W116, when introduced, the USA demanded 'sealed beam'headlamps, of which they were supplied witht he tungsten globes. The rest of the world had moved forward to accomodating the brighter light available from a Halogen Globe [sometimes referred to as Quartz Halogen because of the material used for the globe. Tungsten was the filament in the sealed beam units and halogen was the Gas used and quartz was used for the globe in the QH globes.
So the QH lamps produced a 'whiter', 'brighter'light. NO ARGUEMENTS, they were better than Sealed Beam units in performance. They may not have 'looked'as good to some folks as the Euro lamps. The shape of the Euro lamps was rectangular for styling improvements and also to accomodate, Hi / Low Beam, Park Light and Fog light.
These days most manufacturers are miving to even better light provided by Zenon units [which may appear to cast a blueish light.
For the Amerians lighting standards are being defined under: FMVSS No: 18 have a look at http://fmvss108.tripod.com/fmvss108text.htm
Quote from: John Hubertz on 18 November 2008, 05:32 PM
Reminds me of my 66 Galaxie 500 XL fastback - I got some modified aircraft landing lights and put them in place of the sealed beam highbeams - wow could I get slow morons out of the passing lane - those things would peel paint!
Like you I replaced them, in my case with GE police spotlamps. They were too long-range to be useful as highway high lamps.
(http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/kits/images/Promotional/66galaxie1.JPG) I couldn't find a pic - but here's the year/model/color
390 4 bbl with console and buckets - that was one of the few cars over the years I wish I'd kept.
I probably didn't get all of the light I could with only a 35 Amp alternator ::)
My folks traded the 4 door Falcon wagon I grew up in for the grandparents Galaxy 500. It's trunk was so big it had it's own weather pattern inside. We didn't keep it all that long, it was traded in on a brand new 1969 Peugeot 504. 7 years later, I learned to drive in that Peugeot.
Michael
Heh.
"Trunk weather"
Explains the rot on even the best 116s in the trunk corners. And here I thought I parked it too close to my beater and caught a case of "truck moths".
(http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/insects/az1320/clothes-moth-damagealt.jpg)
Hi guy's! I am new to this site as I just bought my first Benz. A very nice 1974, one owner 280se. Blue with bone interior. I like the look of the twin headlight American style lights. There is a guy on Ebay selling Genuine covers from the US. My question is, Are the US head lights a completely diffrent unit to the Euro ones, or can those covers he is selling be fitted to the Euro lights to give the US look?
You'll need the whole shebang. Headlight buckets, Headlight "door" (the trim around the lamps themselves), lamps, and maybe the side marker housings and a bit of rewiring but it's not undoable.
Ok thanks.
Funny you should mention Peugeots on a MB site. I owned two of them "way back," a 1960 403 (talk about a tank!), then a '79 404 wagon. They were wonderful cars which would run on and on and on. But Peugeot finally pulled out of the US, so that was the end of that. But good often comes out of bad, hence, my first ownship of a Mercedes Benz. Now, nothing else will do. But I still remember sitting in the old 403 at night and listening on short wave to the BBC Foreign Service, as well as other foreign stations. Ah, the good 'ol days.
Hemersam
There are H4 conversions for the sealed beam US style headlights. They are made by Hella and look like a round 5 3/4 inch glass with a removable clip in the back where you can install Hella H4 60/55w bulbs. These cost about $40-50 per lens (4 in total) including the bulbs. Most Euro lights are now getting old and the reflectors are becoming dull. This is possibly why some think that the performance of the US lights are comparable.
The Euro lights should be far superior.
What you want to do is compare NEW euro light assemblies with NEW US sealed beams to get an accurate comparison.
Quote from: Hemersam on 09 February 2009, 04:16 PM
Funny you should mention Peugeots on a MB site. I owned two of them "way back," a 1960 403 (talk about a tank!), then a '79 404 wagon. They were wonderful cars which would run on and on and on. But Peugeot finally pulled out of the US, so that was the end of that. But good often comes out of bad, hence, my first ownship of a Mercedes Benz. Now, nothing else will do. But I still remember sitting in the old 403 at night and listening on short wave to the BBC Foreign Service, as well as other foreign stations. Ah, the good 'ol days.
Hemersam
My Dad was into French cars up until 2005 or so when the 405 Mi16 snapped a cam shaft. He bought the Maxima that he drives now and kept the standard 405 for another year. I count 7 or 8 French cars since '61 or so.
I learned to to drive in the 504 and later had Dad's 505STI for a while. Add in the Renaults, an R12 wagon and 3 Caravelles and you can see I followed in his footsteps.
Michael